Sam93

Hey Kellen, welcome to the forums! Can I ask if you suffer from DP/DR (Depersonalization/Derealization) as well as your visual symptoms? -Sam

Yeah, but research and trial and error are going to lead to a treatment or even better, a cure someday! That's all we can do really, make educated guesses and pretty much guinea pig ourselves, safely of course. Yeah TLE can cause dissociation, the feeling you describe, even visual distortions and hallucinations. After reading a little more though some other symptoms include scratching your head, removing items of clothing and sexual feelings and behaviour, so I won't go too deep into the temporal lobe idea unless us HPPDers start wandering down the street naked, scratching our heads and pursuing women haha. Yeah, shows you just how powerful psychedelics really are! I don't think anyone knows about the true nature of LSD's mechanism of action either, I'm sure I read that LSD is pretty much out your brain in half an hour and the rest is just a cascading chemical reaction? I may well have imagined that though. indeed I've seen the reports of it lasting days after administration too, it must have a very interesting mechanism of action. What gives me hope is the reports of people feeling more present, more alive and more connected, quite exciting for DP! The reports of people saying colours were so vivid they could almost taste them and feel them seems a little odd though, sounds kind of like Synesthesia which would mean communication across different brain areas that otherwise shouldn't be happening, unless they were just exaggerating a little. Fingers crossed on this one anyway!

Hey man, Have you tried magnesium? That reduces my snow quite a bit and is also very calming.

So your DP went away in 3 months from first onset? Well it gives me hope that at least DPDR can go away. I'm tired of feeling like I'm in a dream and the outside world feeling less real. Getting some emotions back though and it's been almost 4 months so far so maybe there's hope! Yeah I was thinking of starting bodybuilding again, something to focus on and that requires discipline can only help. Ah, I can live with the visuals, if the dpdr went away I'd consider myself cured.

Hi there, Well there's a legal Benzo where I live called Etizolam, which is technically not a benzodiazepine but a thienodiazepine, basically where the benzene ring of the molecule has been replaced by a thienophene ring. From what I've read it is more selective to the alpha 2 subtype of the GABAA receptor, which means it should be more potent as an anxiolytic. I have only tried it once but in EEG scans it has shown characteristic effects of tricyclic antidepressants, and has been reported to increase serotonin levels or possibly even act as a serotonin releasing agent, although this isn't confirmed i don't believe. The fact it shows tricyclic antidepressant effects which means possible serotonin increase makes the therapeutic benefit in HPPD somewhat negligible I feel. Although increasing serotonin has helped some of our members so it depends on the person I guess. Some interesting things ive found are: No cognitive defects were reported in a 3 week dosage of 0.5mg a day compared to placebo, which is unusual for a benzo. When multiple doses of etizolam were administered compared to lorazepam, lorazepam caused down regulation of alpha1 GABA sites whereas etizolam caused an increase in alpha2 GABA subtypes, almost reverse tolerance. No tolerance to the anticonvulsant effect of etizolam was reported with long term administration compared to other Benzos. Quote: 1. Patients with generalized anxiety disorder were either treated with Etizolam (0.5 mg), Alprazolam (0.5 mg), or Bromazepam (3 mg) twice a day. While all three drugs retained their effectiveness over 2 weeks, etizolam actually started to become more effective than the other benzos from to 2 weeks to 4 weeks (reverse tolerance in a way). The researchers also note antidepressant activity in etizolam not seen in the other two drugs tested. This should mean in theory that Etizolam should cause less addiction and dependence, and due to reverse tolerance effect actually increases alpha2 GABAA subtypes, making more of the receptors available I believe. It's an interesting thienodiazepine nonetheless. One thing I will say is that the time I did try Etizolam i felt a lot more normal, more sedated than I usually would but a lot more normal. Cognition was actually improved dramatically, and it reduced visual snow by around 75 percent from a 1mg dose. Interestingly it didn't affect trails and tracers (possibly due to seretogenic activity) but completely removed after images. There was a definite lessening of DP/DR too, although I noticed colours looked more vivid on Etizolam for some reason. This may be an excellent alternative to Clonazepam for some sufferers. Main metabolite has a half life of just under 9 hours.

Man, I wish my DP/DR had disappeared. Losing your sense of reality and your emotions is losing what makes us human. Mine seems to be improving slowly. Worst symptom aside from the blunted emotions is feeling like I don't have a body. DP/DR really is a physical sensation and not just a mental one, if you understand what I mean, maybe that's just me haha. I do miss my emotions, ironic but yeah haha.

This is what my snow is like too, although my snow is a bit faster than that image. My snow isn't even coloured as such either, it's like transparent snow but is very visible, hard to explain.

Haha no I'm not ready for a lobotomy just yet! But indeed the brain is a very complex thing and if it were as simple as reversing the effects of the drug then a 5ht2a antagonist would relieve all our symptoms, but of course it does not. I have more faith in the sufferers finding a cure than the professionals, not to discredit the work of the likes of dr. Abraham etc. of course but research looks bleak at best at the moment. That's why it's people like you that give me hope ODISA! Yeah I know it needn't be caused by TLE, I just thought maybe that was the area of the brain responsible for those feelings, but hey, we don't even know the neuro chemistry or neuropathogenesis behind DP/DR either! Kind of weird to think that a single dose of Psychedelics has done this to me though! The main thing that worries me is I took 25B-Nbome which is a research chemical and hasn't even been studied in humans, aside from its 5HT2A agonism who knows what else it's done to me. I saw an EEG scan of a brain on 25b-nbome compared to other psychedelics and the whole brain was lit up like a Christmas tree, literally strong activity in every single part, scary. Anyway my anxieties aside, I can't wait to get my hands on this either. My HPPD is quite mild aside from the dpdr so if your theories are right about Coluracetam I should respond to it quite well in theory! We shall see. Even if one person responds to it then I guess it's worthwhile.

Ah I just assumed that if seizures and over activity in the temporal lobe could cause DP/DR type symptoms then lowering activity there could relieve symptoms. But there's no real way of lowering activity in specific brain regions that I know of so that idea was bunk anyway. Indeed limbic stimulation would be beneficial, this is why I was considering Aniracetam too as it increase extracellular levels of dopamine and serotonin (5-HT) in the prefrontal cortex, basolateral amygdala and dorsal hippocampus of the mesocorticolimbic system. It's also a positive alllosteric modulator of the AMPA receptor (really dont know what this means). Thought a low dose of this might stack with Coluracetam possibly.

Actually can't wait to try this out, although I can't help but think while it could do wonders for the visuals it may not do much for DP/DR. I think reducing excitation in the temporal lobe and pre frontal cortex is the key to solving our DP/DR from what I've researched. Particularly the temporal lobe. Mild seizures in the temporal lobe cause extreme DP/DR.. Hmm. Off topic - HPPD is making me want to pursue a career in Neuroscience, it's fascinating.

Hey man, I think we've all had suicidal thoughts at one time or another dealing with this crap, but remember there are many people who have completely recovered, and even if they haven't, the long term sufferers on the board have all managed to go on to live good lives, maybe not as good as without HPPD, but good lives with successful relationships, families and educations nonetheless, this is not the end of your happiness. The main thing is fighting it, you have to take action and not let it defeat you, YOU have hppd, it belongs to you, you do not belong to it. Try to find that motivation inside of you. What worked for me was joining a college course where I'm socialising every day and learning which can only be good for cognition. A few months ago I was home bound, suicidal with extreme anxiety to the point where I couldn't leave the house. Now, I attend college every day, socialise and do everything a normal 21 year old guy would. I thought I'd never get any enjoyment out of life again but I've started to look forward to things and enjoy them again, and you can too. This shit doesn't have to end you, it's just another obstacle to overcome. It is an every day struggle but people live great lives with much more debilitating conditions than ours. Of course, there are also treatments available, whether its Klonopin, Keppra, Sinemet, Lamictal, Clonidine, SSRI's there are definitely things you can try pharmacologically. Also make sure you get some good supplements down you. I recommend a B vitamin complex, Omega 3 fish oil and magnesium as a base. There are other things you can add such as N-Acetyl Cysteine (worked wonders for me) L-Tyrosine, Alpha GPC. On the days where it really gets the better of me I just take a Clonazepam, which gives me great relief. Just knowing there's something there that can relieve me if I ever need it is lovely. Don't research too much into HPPD either, particularly the horror stories, just focus on getting your life back, one step at a time. This is YOUR life and you do what you need to do. Stick around on the forums too, I find it very therapeutic and calming just talking on here sometimes, we're all in this together after all!

Hi, For those of you who are in relationships, do you feel HPPD has affected/is affecting it in a negative way at all? Does your partner know and how supportive have they been? I've been in a relationship for a year now and due to my DP/DR which comes with some emotional disconnection, I do find it hard sometimes. Particularly connecting emotionally to my partner. I do have feelings and affection for my partner, I know they are there but due to the DP/DR I feel disconnected from those feelings, which is sometimes hard. On the plus side, when I spend time with my partner it does take my mind off HPPD a great deal and is one of the things that keeps me going really, there has been moments where I've completely forgotten about it. My HPPD is relatively mild so I'm hoping I have a good chance at recovery, it's just the dissociation gets hard sometimes. Not to be crude but thankfully one thing it hasn't affected is my Libido. I'm still a 21 year old male AKA lump of testosterone in that department which is good too, haha. How about you?

Hi mate, So have you still got the visual symptoms etc since the dpdr has subsided? I've been experiencing symptoms of HPPD and DP/DR for 4 months now. DP/DR seems to be improving somewhat and I'm getting some emotions back which is all I care about really, the visuals don't bother me.

Good good. Yeah that's the feeling I mean. I love being out in nature but when I'm there I still get the DP/DR feeling of not being connected with my surroundings, if you know what I mean. I feel very empathetic toward animals too, more so than humans most of the time. God knows how you've put up with it for so long mate!

Hi there, As Jay has said, for me things died down a lot the first 2 or 3 months until I reached my baseline. However, you may want to consider some serious lifestyle changes. Staying sober is an absolute must. Some can tolerate the occasional drink with no change in symptoms like myself but for others it makes things worse by orders of magnitude. Stay sober, eat healthy and get in a routine of regular exercise. Also try supplementing with a B vitamin complex, fish oil and magnesium which helped for me, or check out the medication section of the forum for recommenced supplements. I'd also recommend checking the general forums, particularly the general advice and success stories section, just knowing things do get better is enough to get your life back on track.

Yeah, at least there's something to keep me sane, if there was no magic bullet for me to take then fuck knows what state I'd be in haha! As for dissociation (DP/DR) its just a feeling of being disconnected from yourself and your emotions, so while I can still laugh my head off at a funny joke, the emotion behind the laugh is blunted, I'm not sure if you understand what I mean. Or another example would be if I saw, say, a homeless person on the streets, I know intellectually that I feel sorry for them but I don't feel it emotionally to a great deal. Benzos give me some emotion back though which is great, anyway I'm rambling. Hope your wife is OK!

Ah cool, cheers for that.It's tempting to give Aniracetam a trial run but the 5HT2a agonism might just worsen my HPPD... Although a quote from a report 'it also becomes easier concentrate with improved mental energy and a feeling of awareness and wakefulness' seems like it could help DP/DR Sunifiram looks interesting too, 'Sunifiram aids in the release of acetylcholine in the cerebral cortex'

Indeed, Aniracetam does sound quite interesting too but I'm not willing to mess with my good ol' 5HT receptors any more haha. Yeah I'd be more than happy to pay that, if there's a UK supplier as you say then I'll definitely give it a trial run.

Hey, Oh, I do apologise, I'm really not with it today. I meant that Aniracetam has been show to AGONISE not ANTAGONISE D2, D3 and 5HT2a receptors. My mistake! Also does something at the nACh receptors too from a glance at Wikipedia. Quote: Aniracetam, a cognition enhancer, has been recently found to preferentially increase extracellular levels of dopamine (DA) and serotonin (5-HT) in the prefrontal cortex (PFC), basolateral amygdala and dorsal hippocampus of the mesocorticolimbic system. But yes, Coluracetam does sound very interesting, I'd love to get my hands on some if the pricing isn't too extreme.

I was just looking at the Taurine page on Wikipedia and noticed a few things that would seem helpful to us HPPD'ers, and couldn't find any other threads on Taurine, so have a look! Taurine crosses the blood–brain barrier[23][24][25] and has been implicated in a wide array of physiological phenomena including inhibitory neurotransmission long-term potentiation in the striatum/hippocampus (basically enhanced signal transmissions in these areas of the brain, good for improving memory etc) calcium homeostasis (regulation of calcium channels from what I understand?) protection against glutamate excitotoxicity (some believe HPPD is a form of excitotoxicity) prevention of epileptic seizures (HPPD shows pre-seizure activity) taurine produces an anxiolytic effect and may act as a modulator or antianxiety agent in the central nervous system by activating the glycine receptor There seems to be some potentially good benefits for us HPPDers there. Anyone tried it? Thanks. EDIT: Whoops, I didn't realise I posted this in the symptoms forum, my cognition is not at it's best today, could this pleased be moved to the medications forum? Sorry about that.

Whoops, double posted and I'm not sure how to delete it. :S

Hey mate, Yeah it's me haha! Your results from tDCS do sound great, however as it was only around 15 minutes of relief then can we assume that this couldn't be used as a sustainable treatment? Not to take anything away from your results of course. I'm trying to do some research on whether DP/DR could be considered a seperate issue to HPPD or it's pretty much tied in with it, as I've not read any stories of people's DP/DR going away on the forums. It is my opinion that it is not a result of the visuals at all but tied in with the whole HPPD symptomatology. It's interesting that people suffering from temporal lobe epilepsy experience DP/DR, so maybe overactivity in the temporal lobe could be partly to blame? Other forms of epilepsy also cause DP/DR type symptoms to a lesser extent, and also migraines, and of course the co-morbidity of anxiety disorders, so DP/DR symptoms are obviously due to disinhibiton/excitation/over-activity in areas of the brain. It is interesting that K-Opioid antagonists like Naloxone and Naltrexone seem to migitate DP/DR somewhat though, I wonder what the opioid system would have to do with DP/DR? As Dr. Abraham has stated, when you have the 'pre-seizure' activity shown in us HPPD'ers, localised brain regions also start beating in the same rhythm, and so it's obviously much more complex than just disinhibition of the visual cortex, as shown in qEEG's it is the whole cerebral cortex that shows dis inhibition. I know that's probably nothing you didn't already know, I'm just rambling. Any none-hppders fancy donating me a new cerebral cortex? Sorry for the long post, I tend to go off track!

Ah yes, amphetamines are the devil so I guess we can write that experience off. The only reason I mentioned the colour enhancement is that another racetam (Aniracetam) has similar visual effects from what I've read from reports (sharper edges, colour enhancement, the 'HD Vision' effect mentioned in Coluracetam reports. A few quotes from Aniracetam reports: 'Aniracetam on its own causes a huge increase in visual accuracy, 3d and color perception, simultaneous geometric processing capabilities, auditive loudness and clarity 'With Aniracetam, many users experience extremely enhanced visual and hearing processing. The only reason I mention aniracetam is that it's effects seem remarkably similar to Coluracetam, with a noticable anxiolytic action, and after some reading I notice aniraceam has an antagonistic effect at D2, D3 and 5HT2a receptors. 5HT2a receptors could definitely cause colour enhancement and the dopamergenic antagonism could account for some of the visual sharpness etc, so I wonder if Coluracetam has any effect at these receptors also? Although they don't look too structurally similar. Anyway, sorry to go off topic a bit!

That sounds good, I think I'll try a weekend routine like yours and see how I go, the only thing I'm struggling with at the minute is after a couple of days on Benzo's, when I wake up Monday morning it's the psychological mindset of 'oh, I've got a week of this again' but I'm sure coping mechanisms improve with time. Can I ask if you still have dissociation/if you had it in the first place? Particularly emotional numbing? This is the thing I struggle with the most as being in a relationship it's quite hard not being able to feel much towards my girlfriend. Cheers Jay.

Hi all, Yeah, as the title states, has anyone had their DP/DR go away even if the visuals and other symptoms have not? I'm not sure if the dissociation can be thought of as a seperate problem or it is a problem resulting from our HPPD neurochemistry gone wrong. I do know that it is often a co-morbid symptom of anxiety, but I suffer very little with anxiety and yet I still have strong DP/DR. Have any of the long term sufferers had the dissociation go away, and been able to feel emotion again etc? Many thanks.