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Hppd is not real. It is extreme health anxiety relating to your vision.


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Facts:

All 'symptoms' of hppd are experienced by people without hppd or have never taken psychedelic drugs.

People who think have hppd fixate on these 'symptoms' as a result of health anxiety about their past drug use, they become overly attentive to Normal visual disturbances that others dont care about and create their own condition.

All people whose posts I read in hppd forums either exhibit classic signs of severe anxiety, or have found relief via treatment methods and drugs that mirror those used to treat anxiety.

Native American indians who take peyote NEVER get hppd. Why? Because it is normal and acceptable in their culture and they feel no anxiety about the use of the drug.

How do I know this? Because I have taken lots of psychedelic drugs and once thought I had hppd, then realised that I was being overly anxious and what I was 'seeing'was normal, I'd seen plenty of times before taking drugs and chose not to worry about it.

EVERYONE. STOP STRESSING. YOUR VISION IS FINE. YOU DO NOT HAVE BRAIN DAMAGE. YOU HAVE SEVERE ANXIETY,  MAIFESTATING ITSELF AS HEALTH ANXIETY OVER YOU VISION.

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You're not a scientist, you don't know what the members of this forum experience visually and cognitively, you do not add anything constructive to the forum, therefore I think you posting here is totally useless and undesirable.

If it was only anxiety, we would all be healed since most of of the people who seek medical help get misdiagnosed as having anxiety.

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Read this:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closed-eye_hallucination

Where the article mentions 'extensive visualisation training', that is exactly what you have given yourselves by 1.taking phyachadeics and 2. Spending weeks / months / years focusing on normal visual disturbances.

On the subject of visual snow it says: '. When active observation is stopped, it is not obvious or noticeable, and seemingly disappears from normal physical perception'.... you all just cant stop yourselves from dong 'active observation'.

You are all just obsessing and focussing on normal visual phenomena.  It is a mental illness.

I can give myself 'severe hppd' if I allow my eyes to glaze over and remind myself of past trips. Anyone can. Visual snow, floaters, haos etc, all normal stuff that all can 'see'. 

The hppd sufferer has an anxiety disorder where they are obsessed that this stuff is caused by brain damage from drug use and hence cant take their mind off it.

Anxiety by its nature can cause such extreme visual, physical and mental symptoms that you become convinced that there must be a more sinister cause. There isn't.

The fact that you say 'only anxiety' is illustrative of your misunderstanding of the condition.

Edited by MattyHouseMouse
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One very severe counter-argument against your "theory": In 11 of 12 cases, taking phenothiazines worsens HPPD severely. For "normal" anxiety patients, they just work as a sedative. Many of the usual anxiety patients are also extremely worried about their health, so why don't they get HPPD when taking phenothiazines? It just does not make sense, there would have to be much more non-hallucinogen-induced cases. Even if not "trained" well, at least a small number of anxiety patients should notice the increase of visual phenomena caused by phenothiazines, get worried about it and falling into the "HPPD loop". But there are, as far as I know, 0 cases of people developing HPPD after phenothiazine usage without a past hallucinogen exposure.

During my psychedelic expieriences, I completely didn't notice any of my HPPD symptoms. They suddenly occured more than a month after my LSD exposure, so I definitely did not have any "training". Some people suddenly get HPPD from one day to the next, years after hallucinogen exposure. How do you explain that? Why do many people exist who have very(!) strong visuals, but no anxious or emotional component at all? Why do some people have a sudden remission of visual symptoms from one day to another after years of "training"?

My visual symptoms are not correlated in any way with anxiety. Sometimes I feel anxiety and visual phenomena are weak, and sometimes visual phenomena is strong and I don't feel any anxiety. For 3 months, I didn't feel any anxiety at all and barely put any attention on visuals, but visual phenomena was still getting worse with the same speed as befor and afterwards. Why do I have extreme mood swings from anxious to deppressive and (rarely) even euphoric expieriences which are very trippy. Do usual anxiety patients feel strong euphory just as under drug exposure?

4 hours ago, MattyHouseMouse said:

Native American indians who take peyote NEVER get hppd. Why? Because it is normal and acceptable in their culture and they feel no anxiety about the use of the drug. 

It was also normal and acceptable for me to take hallucinogens and I felt completely no anxiety about the use of the drug. During my bad trip and afterwards, within the first 3 months of my condition, there was not a single moment where I was not 100% sure that I'm safe and will be cured very, very soon. So why did I get HPPD?

So many questions that cannot be answered by your claim.

But I'd bring a counter theory into the discussion: People whose HPPD symptoms fade fast, persuade themselves that it was just imagination. No it was not. It was real for you, but you can't believe it as soon as you can't feel or see it anymore. You don't want to believe it. Your mind is rewriting the story in a way that you feel that everything is / was under your control. Because it doesn't want to accept that control is an illusion. And of course your mind favorites the explanation allowing you to continue hallucinogen use and having the control whether to develop HPPD or not. It's hard to admit that you don't have any control whether to develop this disorder or not.

4 hours ago, MattyHouseMouse said:

EVERYONE. STOP STRESSING. YOUR VISION IS FINE. YOU DO NOT HAVE BRAIN DAMAGE. YOU HAVE SEVERE ANXIETY,  MAIFESTATING ITSELF AS HEALTH ANXIETY OVER YOU VISION.

Everyone here knows that HPPD highly interacts with anxiety. There are people understanding this connection from the first day of their condition trying to work against their anxiety. "Stop being anxious" is a very good advice, but not a cure.

Nobody knows if there is a brain damage or not. If someone suffers 40 years from this condition, and yes, there are such cases, I don't know what's the difference to a brain damage. You may say "the difference is that you can escape the loop", but remission can happen in cases of brain damage as well because the brain has the capability of working around the damage. Anyhow, you can assume that many patients do everything they can to get rid of anxiety.

In the end it does not matter which theory is right. You cannot cure HPPD by saying it's anxiety-based just as you cannot cure depression by saying it's sadness-based. This discussion is damned to end in the middle of nowhere. There is no key and there will always be patients who are completely therapy-resistent, even if they are working harder on their cure than 99% of the other patients. Anyone can be cured, but not everyone.

Edited by AlphaBeta
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No 'hppd' in my corner, sorry. When I say I once thought I had 'hppd' I mean it was for like 10 mins after reading about 'hppd' on line and was trying to test to see if I had it. This was 15 years after last taking mushrooms. I can as I said can give myself severe 'hppd' by looking for it. Anyone can, it's normal stuff that the eyes do. The 'hppd' sufferer has got themselves stuck in that loop where through paranoia or maybe reminiscence about the drug experience they keep doing it. 

Someone mentioned that people can get it years after the drugs, how on earth does that work? Take the drugs, recover fine, years of normal vision, all drug molecules completely out of their system, then suddenly for no apparent reason they start seeing 'hppd'? Clearly a metal process has kicked in somehow, how could they suddenly have spontaneously developed brain damage out of nowhere?

Edited by MattyHouseMouse
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15 hours ago, MattyHouseMouse said:

No 'hppd' in my corner, sorry. When I say I once thought I had 'hppd' I mean it was for like 10 mins after reading about 'hppd' on line and was trying to test to see if I had it. This was 15 years after last taking mushrooms. I can as I said can give myself severe 'hppd' by looking for it. Anyone can, it's normal stuff that the eyes do. The 'hppd' sufferer has got themselves stuck in that loop where through paranoia or maybe reminiscence about the drug experience they keep doing it. 

Someone mentioned that people can get it years after the drugs, how on earth does that work? Take the drugs, recover fine, years of normal vision, all drug molecules completely out of their system, then suddenly for no apparent reason they start seeing 'hppd'? Clearly a metal process has kicked in somehow, how could they suddenly have spontaneously developed brain damage out of nowhere?

If HPPD worked like how you claimed it does then how would symptoms continuously effect unaware/indifferent individuals, sometimes even getting worse over time? Personally after my emergence of symptoms I had no clue that my past drug usage could have caused this condition for awhile. Even then I wasn't hyperfixated on visual changes, etc. and despite the obliviousness nothing went back to "normal". For the longest time I really didn't care, until things progressively became worse on their own... however I've never had severe anxiety, and still don't. I didn't find out what HPPD was until much later.

Edited by Kalo
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22 hours ago, MattyHouseMouse said:

Someone mentioned that people can get it years after the drugs, how on earth does that work? Take the drugs, recover fine, years of normal vision, all drug molecules completely out of their system, then suddenly for no apparent reason they start seeing 'hppd'? Clearly a metal process has kicked in somehow, how could they suddenly have spontaneously developed brain damage out of nowhere? 

Guy, you disprove yourself. If it has nothing to do with previous drug exposure and is only a mental process, then there would have to be plenty of non-hallucinogen-induced cases.

How does it work? Nobody knows. You have diseases like the Gulf War syndrome that can also suddenly occur years or even decades after the damaging exposure - and in this example, you clearly see a brain damage on the MRI in some cases.

47 minutes ago, MattyHouseMouse said:

I'm not sure I believe that.

Not surprising. You refuse to believe anything that could imply that you don't have the control about the severity of the symptoms. HPPD is real. It could be that it was not HPPD in your case and you really just flipped out. But don't do the mistake thinking your own expierience is valid for everyone. People who don't have expierience with chronic mental illnes are always thumb enough to think patients could escape if they just really want it - I thought similar before getting HPPD. But that's just bullshit. It was not your great capacity coping with mental illness in your case, it was just luck. There are people who have indeed great capacity dealing with mental illness - but every single person of them needs months and years of training to develop that capacity.

Edited by AlphaBeta
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@AlphaBetaHang on, you say that it was luck that I once got some hppd like visuals then 'escaped' ? Please clarify, what was it that I was lucky to do?!

 What I did was realise that I was being paranoid and thought no more of it. I might not have done that and got 'hppd', and then what would have just happened? I would have fallen into the mind trap of which I speak. I would have created my own condition, it would have been a classic case of the condition. 

I do not disprove myself at all, in fact all I read here and on this forum goes further to justify my points. It's a mind trick, it has to be. There will be no non hallucinogens cases as you need the past use of them to make you fall into the trap, the past use gives you the paranoia and connection between the normal visual phenomena and and the past hallucinations you once saw.

It's a bit like maybe someone who goes all through life not noticing they have a big nose then someone says they have and then they can't stop noticing it.

Now this is where the issue lies, to recover I think it is a two stage process.

1.accept that it is a mind trick and nothing more.

2. Re train your thought processes to escape it. 

Both not easy, esp if the drugs have given you PTSD or gave you experiences so profound that your mind is stuck thinking about them. The mind trick is REAL that's for sure.

Hows about this for a theoretical test? Hppd sufferer does something that places their mind and body under intense strain, I dont know, freefall sky diving or swimming with great white sharks without a cage. Something that completely captures their entire attention in an intense way. Would they 'see' 'hppd' during the experience? I reckon not.

 

Edited by MattyHouseMouse
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45 minutes ago, MattyHouseMouse said:

@AlphaBetaHang on, you say that it was luck that I once got some hppd like visuals then 'escaped' ? Please clarify, what was it that I was lucky to do?! 

 What I did was realise that I was being paranoid and thought no more of it. I might not have done that and got 'hppd', and then what would have just happened? I would have fallen into the mind trap of which I speak. I would have created my own condition, it would have been a classic case of the condition.  

You had luck that it worked for you and it subsided. As I said, I did not put attention on symptoms for 3 months and they still got worse.

45 minutes ago, MattyHouseMouse said:

Hows about this for a theoretical test? Hppd sufferer does something that places their mind and body under intense strain, I dont know, freefall sky diving or swimming with great white sharks without a cage. Something that completely captures their entire attention in an intense way. Would they 'see' 'hppd' during the experience? I reckon not.

Damn, what a proof, you're a genius. Does a psiorias patient feel the itching under such circumstances? Does a deppressive patient feel the depression in such moments? No? Oh, then psiorias and depression are not real as well I guess. Just not focus on it and it'll go away, problem solved! Why did not all the doctors had your great idea? We can cure 50% of all diseases with this method! Please, shut up. You have no idea. You just don't know what real HPPD means because you did not have it.

Edited by AlphaBeta
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@AlphaBeta

Ok on the skydiving/ shark idea, the psoriasis patient will not be paying attention to their skin, but to the shark or rapidly approaching ground.. a complete diversion of the senses. The 'hppd' sufferer will be fully using their eyes the whole time, the very organ that is the source of their perceived issue. It's completely different. If 'hppd' was real then surely they would see it more under such circumstances?

Here are some choice quotes from your posting history:

'My eyes water sometimes when visuals get strong, but there is no pain'...

sure you ain't got the visuals cos your eyes are watering? Why would your eyes water if you had visuals due to brain damage? Sounds like you are doing the same thing as I do to bring on 'hppd' visuals at will. Eyes glaze over, dont blink, eyes get a bit watery, low and behold I get visual snow,  floaters, after images, the works. 

'Sometimes I see a rainbow-like ring around white lights'...... so does every one else in this world, its caused by refraction of light by your eye lenses. Stare at the light and your eyes water a bit, refraction increases due to the tear and you get more rainbow. Reading this has actually made me remember how I used to get the same effect after swimming as a kid, due to watery eyes from the chlorine in the pool!

I think I may have upset you because I am implying that all this is your fault. It isn't. I think you are doing all this stuff subconsciously,  that is the mind loop / trap that I describe in full effect.

You are I think a classic case of the theory, give me a full list of all your symptoms and I will explain them all with simple physical explanations, go on...

Edited by MattyHouseMouse
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31 minutes ago, MattyHouseMouse said:

Here are some choice quotes from your posting history:

This is not my posting history. Anyway, let's stop here. It does not make sense. The opinions are set. Everything that needs to be said is already said, continuing would be just looping the same arguments again and again.

Edited by AlphaBeta
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13 hours ago, MattyHouseMouse said:

They emerged a week or maybe less after and you had no thoughts that it was related to the drugs taken? I'm not sure I believe that.

 

If you don't believe me, I guess there's no reason to argue with you. Think what you want I guess 🤷‍♂️

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Lmao, I guess your intention with this post are good but oh boy...

I never ever experienced anxiety from my HPPD, it sure made the "normal" moment of life that warranted a bit of anxiety (job interview etc...) more difficult, but is not part of my daily, nor monthly life. (It has in the past and I wish strenght to anybody struggling with anxiety disorders right now !).

So what ? I have a completely different condition than other in this forum despite sharing many symptoms and getting them trough drug abuse ? 

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You might have better luck on reddit at /hppd

There are plenty of idiots there who also had some ultra mild hppd and want to believe that severe hppd is just a myth so they can carry on drug taking.

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I came on here trying to help and wasn't expecting this kind of reception if I'm honest. The flakiness of your convictions is plain to see. We have @AlphaBeta who's vision is different when his eyes are watering and can see light refraction when he looks straight at a light source, and denies their own posting history. Also @Kalo who  appears to have taken some psychedelics then seen hppd less than a week later... and made no connection between the two.... can you not see that to an outsider to your community how suspect all this seems? You all seem to be determined that you have a serious visual health issue and appear blissfully unaware of the power of the subconscious mind. Now if my theory WAS right, it would be pretty cool wouldn't it? Bit of cognitive behavioral therapy and it would be bye bye hppd...

This forum is clearly no place for this kind of discussion,  I think I will take this to the scientists,  dr Abraham et al.

Thanks.

Matty.0

Edited by MattyHouseMouse
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Matty O when he gets negative reviews...

cccf6870cce94fac1fac2e5faa465479.gif
 

Were clearly not the only ones with a real condition here, if you think every person on this forum is makiing up their symptoms you’re probably clinically insane, and i agree, you should definitely go talk to real doctors, they will laugh at your immediate dismissiveness of mental disorders, just like they do the doctors of old who dismissed forms of insanity like schizophrenia. You sound ridiculous, you also appear to have a severe ego complex in my opinion. 

also its ridiculous to sign your name in forums especially since your screen name already shows Matty, we know who you are please do not be redundant.

I’m guessing you’re young, if you want to do anything in medicine i highly suggest you do way more reading than just immediately jumping in to theory.

ALSO, you claim facts but you provide zero evidence to support your claims, which also ,akes you appear to be ridiculous. All your posts in this thread are terribly cringy. You just have a belief with no evidence, but you feel strongly about it regardless, it makes you no better than a religious fanatic. 
 

P.S. The cure for male pattern baldness is swimming with sharks... once you see the shark it takes your mind off the hair loss and bam! All the hair is back, rogaine is now obsolete.

Edited by dasitmane
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10 hours ago, MattyHouseMouse said:

Will someone at least do me a favour and go skydiving...and report back their findings.

I have sky dived. I have surfed 15ft+ waves, I have snowboarded ridiculous off piste slopes. HPPD is still there. (Snow is not naturally green/blue, for instance).

I do encourage people to do things that really put you in the moment, it's good for dp/dr, but it is certainly no cure or proof that hppd doesn't exist. 

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