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My theory : HPPD is PTSD induced by hallucinogens


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After all, this is what I think

My Hppd is a post traumatic stress disorder caused by the use of one time very high dosage hallucinogen,

Most of the time it happens to you because during the trip, you become scared to death to never come back normal (pretty common).

It match the PTSD chronology, like it does not occur immediately, but after a certain delay 2 to 3 month, 

Starts with Flashbacks, images of the trauma, depression, depersonalisation, social withdrawal and so on..Intense anxiety/awareness that stays to an abnormal level as "normal condition"

I believe the visuals (snow, palinopsia, in my case), are probably created by this permanent state of anxiety and specially they exist in our very case, more than in other PTSD traumas,  because of the hallucinogen drug induced experience at the origin of it (instead of a car crash, terrorist attack, and other traumatic events - does not have to be a profound bad trip).

To me, there is no brain damage. It's purely anxiety and trauma that get anchored.

That's why it gets better when you don't focus on it (like when you're in love / or feel deeply loved, holidays, and so on)

The best way to cure it, is to work on this anxiety, understand that we can reverse it completely by doing so. 

Follow a PTSD healing protocol.

Specially, understand that we did NOT destroy/damage our brains. 

That's my conclusion.

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8 minutes ago, olivier24445 said:

That's why it gets better when you don't focus on it (like when you're in love / or feel deeply loved, holidays, and so on)

Sadly, mine doesn't. Nothing makes it better, only klonpin diminishes it slightly. Personally, i think it is neurological.. receptor based. The disorder shows up on a qEEG. Also, many people get it from MDMA, an experience that doesn't really bring about panic or distress (quite the opposite).

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I think they are different degrees of experience and many ways to endure it, as we all have our own psychology and approach to the symptoms and how we perceived the whole drug experience, including with MDMA that can also be very intense at high dosage.

Like I said, I think HPPD is first of all, an anxiety disorder, and that's why benzos, alchool, drugs, can reduce it, because they distract you from the symptoms and the permanent state of awareness/anxiety you are in.

And PTSD does show an abnormal ECG too

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21960258

The bain chemistry change is also linked to the condition, but not at the source of it.

Still, it's my position, i'm not pretending i own the truth, but that's the theory that makes more sense to me.

I would ad the following as clues

-PTSD has visual snow and palinopsia actually in the symptomatology.

-Lamictal and Keppra are used also to cure refractory PTSD.

 

 

 

Edited by olivier24445
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  • 3 weeks later...

I think a lot of what you're saying seems logical to some extent. This was my thought process at first too, but over time I really can't say that it would be a plausible cause, for me atleast.  I did 1P-LSD 2 times, both were "amazing"(Never wanna use that word w/ a psychedelic ever a_fucking_gain), No bad trip, No anxiety on the comedown.

 

However......... Just because we, emotionally don't experience trauma during the trips, that doesn't mean our brains don't. So there could very well still be something to this. And thank you and everybody else who is still actively researching, coming up with ideas, etc. I personally find myself too depressed & uneducated to be able to do anything that would contribute scientifically, so I love each and everyone of you who do.

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12 hours ago, Bottleofwater said:

I think a lot of what you're saying seems logical to some extent. This was my thought process at first too, but over time I really can't say that it would be a plausible cause, for me atleast.  I did 1P-LSD 2 times, both were "amazing"(Never wanna use that word w/ a psychedelic ever a_fucking_gain), No bad trip, No anxiety on the comedown.

 

However......... Just because we, emotionally don't experience trauma during the trips, that doesn't mean our brains don't. So there could very well still be something to this. And thank you and everybody else who is still actively researching, coming up with ideas, etc. I personally find myself too depressed & uneducated to be able to do anything that would contribute scientifically, so I love each and everyone of you who do.

I think , like dreams, the traumatic moment of the trip can be washed out of your memories on the morning, and you will just think it was all amazing. 

That would also justify the traumatic resurgence of hppd symptoms at any moment coming in the next days or months following the experience.

Your unconscious self will URGE you , doing so, to pay attention to that condition. I think most of us, who had a strong hppd burst at first, had a complete phobia of hallucinogenic drugs after. That was my case. That's why POT , when you smoke it, bring back the fear of loosing your mind/dying , and will bring you back to that mindset, making it impossible to enjoy it anymore.

After all, we experienced "DEATH" in some ways , with hallucinogens, isn'it ? How can that, not be considered, as traumatic as a real death threat by your brain IRL ? 

Or in fact, the "experience" whatever it will be, might have a chance on some individuals, to start a very similar process in the brain as a traumatic disorder

We are not equal facing traumas. During war time, some soldiers will have their brain all messed up, some will have nothing at all.

 

Edited by olivier24445
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I agree that it’s ptsd like u said. Good post. I think it’s CPTSD which is complex ptsd and the hallucinogenic experience triggered that trauma by a mental breakdown. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.helpguide.org/articles/ptsd-trauma/ptsd-symptoms-self-help-treatment.amp.htm

that ptsd article would fit the hppd / depersonalization explanation. 

 

I think emdr therapy is a good treatment for it though I’ve never done it. 

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imagine degenerative hppd… ive lost my mind man... still very lucid... which is unheard of... but im sure 20+years in hppd will cause some oddity in anyone right? ha... I couldent even begain to describe my weird ass life these days man... auditory... maddnesss.. im still here tho lol. fuck the devil I maintain!

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  • 4 weeks later...
  • 3 years later...

This would explain how i got my hppd without ever taking any psychedelics. I had an kratom withdrawal, a pretty heavy one without knowing i have one, then i took a tiny line speed and shortly after i googled and realized im on withdrawl (from about 30g a day cold) and read about all the symptoms and was in such crazy fear, i was suffering for about a week it was really traumatic and a few weeks later i realized the hppd Symptoms

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Responding to original post.  I took some ridiculous doses.  with one exception where I was dosed without my knowledge (not a high dose), I never had a traumatic experience.  Bizarre, unearthly, beyond description, yes.  But at the time, these experiences, weren't scary or what would be considered a "bummer".  I think I was either predisposed, or perhaps the repeated hammering of my brain cemented this condition.  That, and I started using psychedelics at a young age.  Granted, I'm no expert and I've never been professional evaluated

For what it's worth.

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@apfelsaft45

I tried Kratom once.  A friend of mine suggested I try it for anxiety approaching 15 years ago (not 100% sure of the timeline).  it made me jittery and sick to my stomach so I never tried it again.  This same friend has been using it daily since that time, though I have no idea how much he consumes, but I suspect it's not an insignificant amount.  He tried to quit and he describes it as "quitting nicotine times ten".  He also reported having minor hallucinations (carpet crawling he called it).  He said it took a full month to start to feel "normal" again.  I don't know if his situation is typical, but I thought it was worth mentioning. 

Edited by MadDoc
foolish typing
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On 2/3/2022 at 10:34 PM, MadDoc said:

@apfelsaft45

I tried Kratom once.  A friend of mine suggested I try it for anxiety approaching 15 years ago (not 100% sure of the timeline).  it made me jittery and sick to my stomach so I never tried it again.  This same friend has been using it daily since that time, though I have no idea how much he consumes, but I suspect it's not an insignificant amount.  He tried to quit and he describes it as "quitting nicotine times ten".  He also reported having minor hallucinations (carpet crawling he called it).  He said it took a full month to start to feel "normal" again.  I don't know if his situation is typical, but I thought it was worth mentioning. 

its just a typical opioid withdrawal, kratom is a opioid, wish i wouldve knew this before i started lmao

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I have no idea if opioid withdrawal can cause hallucinations.  In the old days, they were rarely available and of little interest to me.  The fact that my friend had hallucinations after he stopped using kratom is curious though.  He used to dose decades ago, but claims that he's never had any hppd like symptoms.  I don't know if he's currently taking any other medications.  I also wonder if the prolonged kratom  withdrawal is the cause.  From what I understand, withdrawal from opiates is usually short and rather violent.  I think this is relevant because if someone doses, and then withdrawals from a kratom habit, they may think they're experiencing hppd symptoms.  Granted, it's based on the experience of one person, so it's all on shaky ground.

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