Anyone try P5P (active vitamin B6)?

[AmitV]

I started active vitamin b6 (p5p) for treating drug induced akathisia. Turns out it increases production of the liver enzyme that delivers brain gaba. An immense relief from anxiety, agitation. Noticed my visuals improved 40% over 2 months. Still have some crazy stuff. Who knows someone might get a bigger benefit out of it. No side effects. I’m up at 500mg/day. Split into 3 doses per day. Some people report nausea and headaches over 100mg doses. But my understanding is in some people 50mg is enough for an impressive improvement. 
 

Thought it was worth sharing here.

[AF44]

On 3/10/2024 at 9:04 PM, AmitV said:

I started active vitamin b6 (p5p) for treating drug induced akathisia. Turns out it increases production of the liver enzyme that delivers brain gaba. An immense relief from anxiety, agitation. Noticed my visuals improved 40% over 2 months. Still have some crazy stuff. Who knows someone might get a bigger benefit out of it. No side effects. I’m up at 500mg/day. Split into 3 doses per day. Some people report nausea and headaches over 100mg doses. But my understanding is in some people 50mg is enough for an impressive improvement. 
 

Thought it was worth sharing here.

Is active vitamin b6 the same as taking an OTC supplement, or is it something different?

[AF44]

Just now, AF44 said:

Is active vitamin b6 the same as taking an OTC supplement, or is it something different?

Oh btw I forgot to ask, does it help with the weird dizzy/internal vertigo/swaying feeling? 

[AmitV]

8 hours ago, AF44 said:

Is active vitamin b6 the same as taking an OTC supplement, or is it something different?

Its just OTC active vitamin b6, not the regular b6. I got it off iherb

[AmitV]

9 hours ago, AF44 said:

Oh btw I forgot to ask, does it help with the weird dizzy/internal vertigo/swaying feeling? 

Not particularly. But I had a lot more symptoms, that went away with it. As I understand HPPD, PPPD, VSS are all Functional Neurological Disorders from Trauma or brain trying to get rid of stress. Have to recognize if that stress is coming from past trauma or medication-encited event like akathisia and dyskinesia and treat accordingly. If someone has specifically "childhood" trauma, they should consider EMDR trauma therapy as well..

Functional neurological disorder (FND) | NHS inform | NHS inform

All of this coming from stress/stuck in fight-flight/inner turmoil. The amygdala has deep connections to visual perception, vestibular, auditory, and sensory processing centers. Calm the amygdala down with treating your trauma and these problems go away. Naturally, this is not a psychotic condition, symptoms are 100% real! But people don't have the proper understanding of psycho-somatic/functional neurological, symptoms are fucking real! You're not crazy, you and I are in pain! It's fucking hell! The brain does this to protect you from pain (PTSD), because it feels you're injured. Resolve the pain/trauma and the check engine light goes off, and symptoms go away.

This has nothing to do with serotonin, this is dopamine, gaba and norepinephrine. So try all kinds in the form of supplements, gaba enhancers like P5P, gotu kola, niacinamide. Noepinepherine reducers like clonidine, magnesium l-threo. Or Dopamine agonists, if dopamine agonists make you worse, then check if you have slow comt or overmethylating and load up on niacinamide and hydroxy b12.

All the success stories from clonazepam, are simply that the amygdala stayed calmed down for 2 months and abolished the maladaptive circuit. You go off it, knowing how FND's emerge due to pain and trauma, and the pain of withdrawals kick it back up again, some only experience mild withdrawals.

Clonidine utilized in some older pieces of HPPD literature, lowers norepinephrine in the amygdala (lowers stress response).

So ideal candidates are things that stick such as P5P, niacinamide and some more. See youtube link below. Breathing exercises and distraction, greatly help. 

Not everything works for everyone as you know, so it can be a bit of an effort to figure out what works, if it does you will feel the racing thoughts in your mind slowing down within 3-5 days. This is the same problem with drug-induced akathisia, what works for one makes another person worse. If it works, it works in less than 7 days! The same thing many have reported on this forum with some meds, works really quick if you strike the right one! Strangely akathisia is also a dopamine and gaba problem, that flips the switch on drug induced inner turmoil/trauma.

The racing mind is a function of trauma/pain, which causes HPPD, VSS, PPPD, Head Pressure, muscle stiffness, tremors, and fatigue in the form of functional symptoms, previously known as conversion disorder.

"Converts" mental trauma/fear to neurological symptoms. Most people with HPPD will attest that the one event brought a lot of traumas forward in the mind and can't stop the mind from racing, although they are more preoccupied with the symptoms than the mental comorbidity. Truth is have to calm the mind, for the symptoms to resolve. Benzos do that, but well you know what happens with tolerance, withdrawal, etc. Until such time underlying trauma/racing mind/trauma is resolved, symptoms will morph from one to the next, 6 months hppd, then pppd, then head pressure, then something else, then a lot of mixed symptoms. So benzos aren't a solution, benzos are sedating and suppressing trauma resolution pathways, that's why they cause dissociation. If trauma is suppressed, it has to come out in some way, it'll show up as dissociation.

 

Edited April 9 by AmitV

[AF44]

14 hours ago, AmitV said:

Not particularly. But I had a lot more symptoms, that went away with it. As I understand HPPD, PPPD, VSS are all Functional Neurological Disorders from Trauma or brain trying to get rid of stress. Have to recognize if that stress is coming from past trauma or medication-encited event like akathisia and dyskinesia and treat accordingly. If someone has specifically "childhood" trauma, they should consider EMDR trauma therapy as well..

Functional neurological disorder (FND) | NHS inform | NHS inform

All of this coming from stress/stuck in fight-flight/inner turmoil. The amygdala has deep connections to visual perception, vestibular, auditory, and sensory processing centers. Calm the amygdala down with treating your trauma and these problems go away. Naturally, this is not a psychotic condition, symptoms are 100% real! But people don't have the proper understanding of psycho-somatic/functional neurological, symptoms are fucking real! You're not crazy, you and I are in pain! It's fucking hell! The brain does this to protect you from pain (PTSD), because it feels you're injured. Resolve the pain/trauma and the check engine light goes off, and symptoms go away.

This has nothing to do with serotonin, this is dopamine, gaba and norepinephrine. So try all kinds in the form of supplements, gaba enhancers like P5P, gotu kola, niacinamide. Noepinepherine reducers like clonidine, magnesium l-threo. Or Dopamine agonists, if dopamine agonists make you worse, then check if you have slow comt or overmethylating and load up on niacinamide and hydroxy b12.

All the success stories from clonazepam, are simply that the amygdala stayed calmed down for 2 months and abolished the maladaptive circuit. You go off it, knowing how FND's emerge due to pain and trauma, and the pain of withdrawals kick it back up again, some only experience mild withdrawals.

Clonidine utilized in some older pieces of HPPD literature, lowers norepinephrine in the amygdala (lowers stress response).

So ideal candidates are things that stick such as P5P, niacinamide and some more. See youtube link below. Breathing exercises and distraction, greatly help. 

Not everything works for everyone as you know, so it can be a bit of an effort to figure out what works, if it does you will feel the racing thoughts in your mind slowing down within 3-5 days. This is the same problem with drug-induced akathisia, what works for one makes another person worse. If it works, it works in less than 7 days! The same thing many have reported on this forum with some meds, works really quick if you strike the right one! Strangely akathisia is also a dopamine and gaba problem, that flips the switch on drug induced inner turmoil/trauma.

The racing mind is a function of trauma/pain, which causes HPPD, VSS, PPPD, Head Pressure, muscle stiffness, tremors, and fatigue in the form of functional symptoms, previously known as conversion disorder.

"Converts" mental trauma/fear to neurological symptoms. Most people with HPPD will attest that the one event brought a lot of traumas forward in the mind and can't stop the mind from racing, although they are more preoccupied with the symptoms than the mental comorbidity. Truth is have to calm the mind, for the symptoms to resolve. Benzos do that, but well you know what happens with tolerance, withdrawal, etc. Until such time underlying trauma/racing mind/trauma is resolved, symptoms will morph from one to the next, 6 months hppd, then pppd, then head pressure, then something else, then a lot of mixed symptoms. So benzos aren't a solution, benzos are sedating and suppressing trauma resolution pathways, that's why they cause dissociation. If trauma is suppressed, it has to come out in some way, it'll show up as dissociation.

 

Wow, thanks so much for that! It makes a lot of sense to me and you are obviously quite intelligent and well-informed. I’m looking forward to watching this YouTube video. I have been on clonazepam for over a decade. Interestingly enough, after using LSD multiple times, I had very slight visual symptoms that never bothered me at all, I just thought it was a little weird and figured it was something that happened because of LSD use. The trip that tipped me over the edge into full blown HPPD was a HORRIBLE trip! I can’t even describe how bad it was and how terrifying. I was also taking an antibiotic for a UTI at the same time, Ciproflaxin. That stuff is poison in and of itself. I always wondered if the combination of the two is what caused my terrible HPPD. Sorry, I might be veering off the path of what we were talking about in the first place. I’ve always had a wandering mind and it’s worse the older I get! Thanks again for all the great info!

[brake]

On 3/11/2024 at 12:04 AM, AmitV said:

I started active vitamin b6 (p5p) for treating drug induced akathisia. Turns out it increases production of the liver enzyme that delivers brain gaba. An immense relief from anxiety, agitation. Noticed my visuals improved 40% over 2 months. Still have some crazy stuff. Who knows someone might get a bigger benefit out of it. No side effects. I’m up at 500mg/day. Split into 3 doses per day. Some people report nausea and headaches over 100mg doses. But my understanding is in some people 50mg is enough for an impressive improvement. 
 

Thought it was worth sharing here.

Wow that's amazing!

[AmitV]

On 4/9/2024 at 10:09 AM, AF44 said:

Wow, thanks so much for that! It makes a lot of sense to me and you are obviously quite intelligent and well-informed. I’m looking forward to watching this YouTube video. I have been on clonazepam for over a decade. Interestingly enough, after using LSD multiple times, I had very slight visual symptoms that never bothered me at all, I just thought it was a little weird and figured it was something that happened because of LSD use. The trip that tipped me over the edge into full blown HPPD was a HORRIBLE trip! I can’t even describe how bad it was and how terrifying. I was also taking an antibiotic for a UTI at the same time, Ciproflaxin. That stuff is poison in and of itself. I always wondered if the combination of the two is what caused my terrible HPPD. Sorry, I might be veering off the path of what we were talking about in the first place. I’ve always had a wandering mind and it’s worse the older I get! Thanks again for all the great info!

It was the combination. 
the panic attack from lsd and anti-gaba properties of antibiotic. 

For reference: the drugs listed here on page 3 are the ones to avoid going forward. Forget that it refers to akathisia, it’s the same mechanism. Brings all the craziness forward in the mind.

https://akathisiaalliance.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/Guide-for-Clinicians-012224-editable.pdf

My best recommendation to counter this effect. And it’s not straightforward 10 day recovery. It takes time. 

niacinamide - 3000 mg/day

P5P - as tolerated (increases GAD enzyme) converts glutamate to gaba

 gotu kola - as tolerated (increases gad enzyme) converts glutamate to gaba

 Hydroxy b12 - as tolerated (increases comt enzyme, breaks down serotonin, dopamine and norepinephrine in frontal cortex- stress relax)

 lavender oil capsules - used for restlessness and agitation (take as tolerated)

 Antioxidants (glutathione, NaC) - reduces overall glutamate.

The goal is reduce glutamate, increase gaba. Breakdown dopamine (hyper arousal), norepinephrine (sympathetic stress), lower serotonin.

glutamate - stress

 gaba - relax

 dopamine - hyperarousal, can be calming for some

 norepinephrine- sympathetic stress (breathing difficulties, palpitations, blood pressure)

 serotonin - it’s a hoax!

 

Edited April 17 by AmitV

[Jay1]

3rd day taking P5P (150mg, once in the morning). Nothing noticeable yet (good or bad), with the exception of feeling nauseous for a few hours after taking it. 

[Blossy]

Ha, I gave it a go as well Jay, got 100mg from Amazon "Best Naturals".

One day in, 100mg AM, 100mg late PM - updates to follow......

 

 

[AmitV]

6 hours ago, Jay1 said:

3rd day taking P5P (150mg, once in the morning). Nothing noticeable yet (good or bad), with the exception of feeling nauseous for a few hours after taking it. 

Please start low, I recommend 50mg. Not too much. Since it works via enzymes and works like a vitamin that builds up overtime. I would say, slow titration every 2 weeks.