need help and hope..

[Georgecarter24]

“Anxiety, derealization/depersonalization, afterimages, brain fog and visual static are the most common HPPD symptoms. After several months you may develop tinnitus, muscle spasms, loss of night vision, chest tightness, auras etc

Yes, 25i is culpable for causing HPPD in multiple friends of mine“

How can I get over HPPD when I read comments like this that indicate that this condition might be getting worse and worse overtime.. has anyone done 25i, gotten HPPD and recovered? This guy is making it seem like this is a neurodegenerative condition that gets worse over time.. like chest tightness would be an awful symptom to have for a long time.

It’s been 4 years since I’ve done NBOMe and I still see this visuals. Like visual trails when I wave my phone in a dark room with the brightness up, slight after images, smoky night vision with colorful dots. Is my brain just messed up permanently and going to keep on getting worse with time?

Please reassure me that I’ll recover from this... this could be by telling me that these visuals are normal in people who haven’t even touched drugs. Or recovery stories from 25i induced HPPD. Please just give me anything positive about your recovery.

Is this a mind over matter situation or has there been too much damage done? I feel like this is all a result of 5ht2a induced excitoxicity since this receptor acts as a glutamate accelerator. Dr. David Nichols has even speculated that this disorder is possibly a result of 5ht2a sensitization.

Also, if you go on the Wikipedia for palinopsia, you see 5ht2a excitoxicity as a major cause.

Also if my receptors are sensitized, wouldn't that mean that they are going to be constantly pumping glutamate into my cells, leading to excitoxicity since 5ht2a receptors act as an accelerator for glutamate transmission?

Am I overreacting here or do I need to go on lamotrogine ASAP to counteract this excess glutamate release via calcium intake into cells.

[Fawkinchit]

HPPD is definitely not a degenerative disease. Unless you continue drug use.

 

As long as you aren't doing drugs still your glutamate levels have normalized.

Also Im not seeing anything on the wiki about palinopsia being directly related to 5ht2a receptors. 

Edited May 12, 2018 by dasitmane

[Georgecarter24]

Thanks for getting back to me man. I do use weed everyday but at this point I feel as if I need it as a mood booster..

What do you think about my glutamate acceleration theory? If my receptors were sensitized and are still are then won’t my brain be possibly expressing progressive damage from the excess glutamate intake?

it just seems like all of this adds up.. my friend who did the 25i with me recently developed seizures and I wonder if it has to do with this excitoxicity theory. He said he felt a lot better after being on Keppra 

[MadDoc]

I'm no expert on hppd.  I can only speak from my own experience.  For me, hppd is most definitely NOT a degenerative disease.  In my case many of my symptoms eventually dissapeared.  Anxiety dissapeared first, CEVs were the next to vanish.  I'm not sure if I ever had a severe case of DR/DP. I think I did to some extent but I also think it was less severe than what others are dealing with. I felt like I was on a low dose (sometimes not so low) of acid 24/7.  That feeling is either long gone or I'm so used to it I no longer notice.  

As for hope, there's plenty.  There's nothing special about me.  I got an advanced degree, got married (still married after 37 years), raised two wondeful kids, and have a happy life.  I hope I didn't sound like a pompous jerk saying that.  I'm just trying to communicate that even with HPPD, you can follow your dreams and live a happy life.

I've had this disorder for a long time and still have significant visuals.  However, life is wonderful and I'm happy to wake up each morning to be able to live another day.  That may sound ridiculous, but I'm a ridiculous human and that's how I feel.  

Anyone who has read my posts knows I basically say the same thing over and over.  I want anyone who suffers from this disorder to have hope.  Never give up.

Hang in there, and take care.

[Fawkinchit]

12 hours ago, Georgecarter24 said:

Thanks for getting back to me man. I do use weed everyday but at this point I feel as if I need it as a mood booster..

What do you think about my glutamate acceleration theory? If my receptors were sensitized and are still are then won’t my brain be possibly expressing progressive damage from the excess glutamate intake?

it just seems like all of this adds up.. my friend who did the 25i with me recently developed seizures and I wonder if it has to do with this excitoxicity theory. He said he felt a lot better after being on Keppra 

I'm just now seeing that. The 5ht2a receptor excitotoxicity is the most probable reason for this. Still its a guess. Its what I outline as the most probable case in my large thread if you haven't read it.

The glutamate "acceleration" theory is definitely improbable if you mean it in terms of post drug use. If you mean during drug use you are basically rehashing exactly what I've said in my thread, so its already been covered. Glutamate levels after drugs use will stabilize, so its not a degenerative disease.

Also glutamate "acceleration" and receptor sensitivity are not exactly comparable terms. If you mean specifically receptor sensitivity, its hardly likely that its caused by receptor sensitivity, as receptors will increase or decrease in time, or adjust. Its been four years so your glutamate receptors also have returned to normal.

The only other alternative that they mention is GABA transmission disruption. Which I suppose could be a case but i dont exactly understand how it could be permanent. Unless like Dr. Abraham stated with GABA interneurons.

Also, I think what you may not understand is that the excitotoxicity mentioned is cause for permanent neuronal loss, and it only occurs during the time of drug use.

Edited May 12, 2018 by dasitmane

[dayum_son]

Man please, quit the weed ! I can take MDMA, Ketamine, alcohol or cocaine, but none of the are as bad as weed. 

Smoking weed only once a week makes my symptoms worse on the long term.

That's why I quit it approx 2 months ago and won't use it until HPPD totally dubsides. And even if it subsides, I won't use it for another year.

I have the same colorful dots with weed, and twice as intense if I mix it with MDMA.

So yeah, stop the ganja, it's really the worst thing you can do to your HPPD'd brain.

[MadDoc]

I think sobriety is key to making progress.  That's the path I took anyway.  I drank off and on for the first ten years after I quit dosing.  I didn't start to feel pulled together until I quit drinkin'.  Weed is impossible in my case.  It makes my symptoms skyrocket and I get what can be best described as alien visual thinking.  Strange because I used to get weed by the 1/4 pound just for personal use.  

Edited May 13, 2018 by MadDoc
Foolish typing

[Georgecarter24]

Thank you everyone for your inputs. Why is it that weed messes with HPPD so significantly? I mean its a light drug compared to potential brain damage from  cocaine, MDMA or Ketamine.. 

So my visuals aren't a result of 5ht2a sensitization? I've talked to Dr. David Nichols about this topic and he has speculated that my visuals are possibly from 5ht2a supersensitivty. What's causing these visuals right now? The loss of 5ht2a neurons when the drug was taken in the acute stage? Nichols has speculated that this sensitization occurs through intracellular signaling cascades. 

 

Edited May 13, 2018 by Georgecarter24

[MadDoc]

I've heard from a lot of people who used to smoke weed who can't use it anymore.  These are people who don't don't have hppd.  I don't know if my sensitivity to weed was just a natural progression that seems to happen to others or if was caused by all the psychedelics I consumed.  I know it happened quite suddenly.  I was smoking all day every day, then one day I just couldn't.  I quit dosing shortly after weed quit me.

[dayum_son]

A lot of people got HPPD from mixing acid and weed. Can't really say why it happens.

The only thing I found so far is that there is a possible connection between CB (1 or 2, don't remember) activation, which can mess with GABA and Glutamate. Thus the extra hallucinations.

What makes me frustrated the most is now that it's starting to be summer, I can't be out somewhere and smoke weed. But hey, I only got myself to blame.

[Onemorestep]

Yea I got mine from getting nbombed too. I also experienced the muscle spasm as one of my symptoms. However, I can say that I was able to regain a significant amount of cognitive function (I could barely speak when I got hppd... it was bad.)

 

time, sobriety, and healthy life experiences will do a lot of good for you. I promise you, if you hang on, it will get better. I’ve been in that dark hole and know it can be difficult to believe that it will, but we are molded in the fires of adversity are we not?

 

In many ways, while I still suffer quite a bit (mostly through damaging my hypothalamus with drugs post acid) this was probably something that needed to happen to me. I’m doing stuff with my life I probably wouldn’t have if I had continued down the path I was on. 

[Guest]

First - stop smoking weed. It isn't helping.

Second - it would be beneficial for you to stop researching this and focus on overall health, mental and physical. I know you want it to go away. We all do. A bunch of us researching this on the internet trying to put the pieces of a puzzle together isn't going to bring any answers until some serious funding and medical research takes place. 2 guys in a lab doesn't mean shit until other researchers get on board and do multiple randomized double-blind peer-reviewed studies with sufferers and non-sufferers participating.

Third - figure out what supplements may help and try them, along with exercise, healthy diet, meditation, yoga, tai chi and distraction. Try to socialize and do fun stuff even if you don't feel like it. Force yourself into the world.

The best thing anyone suffering from HPPD can do is try to get their stress and anxiety down.

Most symptoms should start to go with time as long as you live healthy and stay away from drugs.

I know it's hard being sober but you don't really have a choice anymore unless you want this to get worse over time.

[Guest]

On 5/12/2018 at 10:02 PM, Georgecarter24 said:

Thank you everyone for your inputs. Why is it that weed messes with HPPD so significantly? I mean its a light drug compared to potential brain damage from  cocaine, MDMA or Ketamine.. 

So my visuals aren't a result of 5ht2a sensitization? I've talked to Dr. David Nichols about this topic and he has speculated that my visuals are possibly from 5ht2a supersensitivty. What's causing these visuals right now? The loss of 5ht2a neurons when the drug was taken in the acute stage? Nichols has speculated that this sensitization occurs through intracellular signaling cascades. 

 

Nobody knows and it doesn't help you in any way to speculate until concrete studies give specific answers and treatment recommendations.

Almost every antipsychotic is a 5ht2a antagonist (such as risperidone) and they tend to make a lot of people worse. The best line from that Wiki article is "but the visual system is probably too complex to know for certain." Magnesium is an NMDA (glutamate) antagonist but if magnesium was "the answer" this forum probably wouldn't exist because people would just be like "Oh HPPD? Take some magnesium."

I don't know who Dr. Nichols is but he's speculating.

I'll leave you with a quote by William James, the father of American psychology:

"My experience is what I agree to attend to. Only those items which I notice shape my mind." in The Principles of Psychology, Vol.1

[Fawkinchit]

On 5/12/2018 at 8:02 PM, Georgecarter24 said:

Thank you everyone for your inputs. Why is it that weed messes with HPPD so significantly? I mean its a light drug compared to potential brain damage from  cocaine, MDMA or Ketamine.. 

So my visuals aren't a result of 5ht2a sensitization? I've talked to Dr. David Nichols about this topic and he has speculated that my visuals are possibly from 5ht2a supersensitivty. What's causing these visuals right now? The loss of 5ht2a neurons when the drug was taken in the acute stage? Nichols has speculated that this sensitization occurs through intracellular signaling cascades. 

 

It could be possibly theorized, but its not a possibility to be honest because the symptoms would go away int he case of sensitivity. like I already said, receptors in the brain can be modified, by the brain. So your receptors have gone back to normal, you're brain however, clearly is not. This shows that its not caused by sensitivity. So Dr. Nichols is unfortunately inaccurate in his thoughts on what might be the cause of HPPD.

No one knows whats causing the visuals right now. There is very little research on it and its unlikely that there will be much primarily because you're dealing with illegal substances. The hard answer of whats most probable is 5HT2A neurotoxicity(through glutamate modifications), so neuronal loss. 

Edited May 30, 2018 by dasitmane