How would you know if you had HPPD/Can Microdosing cause it?

[kmt1993]

Hey guys, So I am kind of curious what your thoughts are on how someone would identify HPPD, I don't think I have it, at least if I do it isn't severe enough that I feel it could impact my quality of life on any level. I still would like the opinions of people that have struggled with it, because if I need to discontinue use of any substance for my long term health I will, but at this point I've experienced more positive changes to myself as a result of psychedelics than anything else I've ever taken, and I would like to continue experiencing these benefits. Quick Drug history on myself, began adhd medication at around 7, took adderall, Ritalin, concerta, at one point straterra and concerta at the same time, finishing off my childhood treatment of adhd with only straterra for the last few years of it. I smoked weed for the first time while on straterra and hated it because of the anxiety it produced. Anyways I took myself off of straterra at like 16. From 20 to 23 I took 450mg of Wellbutrin daily, along with a heavy nicotine and alcohol habit. I took MDMA and mushrooms multiple times during the age of 25 to 26, along with concurrent heavy use of cannabis. 

I'll be clear that I have NEVER taken drugs that I did not see the reagent test results with my own eyes and I have been particularly careful of dosing and timing between doses when it came to MDMA with the exception of one weekend of excessive use, and I have never had a full blown visual hallucination even while under the influence of multiple drugs.

I currently have a diagnosis of borderline personality disorder, I take Wellbutrin and buspirone daily, I drink caffeine regularly, I have kicked nicotine and I drink fairly regularly in a social environment as well as use cannabis pretty much daily. I have suffered from attention and mood problems since I was very young including panic episodes. So the idea of microdosing eventually became what I still to this day believe is the viable solution to my problem. I began with small doses of mushrooms I would take during alcohol/weed binges at raves, at one point mixing it with nitrous.

Anyways, my struggle with mental illness became so severe that I hated myself, I wanted to kill myself very badly and I was very convinced I would never taste stability, I still don't know that I will but I am pretty okay with the fact that it's just something I struggle with. Anyways after a very very difficult night of dealing with suicidality I decided to begin microdosing LSD. The results were MIRACULOUS. So miraculous that I began microdosing more regularly, every 3 days I would take 25ug, I have taken a maximum of 35ug and obviously use large amounts of cannabis extracts with it. Which I realize is high for a micro dose, but I was in a desperate place. So obviously its daunting to think about the fact that you are taking a hallucinogenic substance every 3 days and I would regularly read online about any sort of issues I should be on the lookout for, and after discovering how common HPPD is, and how much more common it is with repeated use and with use of other substances, I became very attentive to my senses. Noticing things like floaters and blue field phenomenon, interestingly enough when I think back I have experienced both of those things as far back as I can really remember. I also noticed that at night when it is dark and there is a bright light, the bright light leaves a slight after image for 2 to 3 seconds after it hits my retina, or if I move my eyes quickly with bright lights in view they leave a streak of negative after image for 2 to 3 seconds, and a lot of bright lights look like they are kind of twinkling from far away. Im aware of both of these being common natural phenomena from my reading, however I wasn't paying enough attention in the past to know if this is new or not. As far as I can tell from conversation with drug naive family members, they also experience most of these visual phenomenon.

Every time I micro dose I become aware that my cannabis use is on a level that should be considered a substance use problem, I micro dosed LSD 2 days ago, and that day when I micro dosed I did so with the intention of giving up cannabis, and now I am two days into sobriety from cannabis. I have had no other visual symptoms or auditory symptoms of any kind, HOWEVER, I do experience a recall of the euphoria I experience on LSD, kind of like an extremely pleasurable tingle, especially when listening to heavy bass music using a subwoofer, in the immediate days following a dose. SO my question is does any of this, aside from my irresponsibly high amount of regular substance use, strike any of you as reminiscent of HPPD experiences you have had? I look forward to hearing your answers, thanks for reading.

[Fawkinchit]

Microdosing can definitely cause HPPD, has, and may even have a higher potential than normal recreational use for causing it if the the microdosing is consistent. Studies have shown this.

Edited June 26, 2021 by Fawkinchit

[kmt1993]

That is interesting, would you be able to provide me with any studies that did show that? I can't really find much data on the topic outside of peoples experiences here.

[Fawkinchit]

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2780790/ This shows aggressive long term affects from microdosing. And there are plenty of people that have reported HPPD from microdosing. @NRFAdmin knows more examples of people than I do however. @Jay1 Also can probably attest to the fact that a good amount of people that post here got it from microdosing. Also a google or reddit search will probably help as well.

[kmt1993]

I spent quite a bit of time on google looking specifically for a study on a microdosing regimen and it’s link to hppd to no avail, that’s how I wound up here. Not to say I didn’t find anything about potential negatives. The study you just showed me is actually the first one I’ve seen like that. However I think that even most of the anecdotal data available here is probably more useful than that study is for a couple of reasons. The first being that a proper microdose schedule (at least the one I adhered/may continue to adhere to after taking a lot of time to learn as much as possible) is spaced out every 3 days rather than continuously dosed every day for 7 days. the second reason being that 80 micrograms over 7 days is more than 10 micrograms a day, which I understand is easily a microdose for a human but let’s think about the fact that you are giving a 180 lb human microdose to a <5lb rat. I can’t consider that a low dose relative to the specific animal in question. I would like to see studies done on humans taking properly spaced out micro doses/threshold doses more than anything. 

Edited June 27, 2021 by kmt1993

[cosmiccharlie]

Hello,

Unfortunately I don't think we will have a definitive answer to the question you are asking for some time.  From my perspective, I personally would wait until more can be said about the potential risks.  Any understanding of HPPD and the interaction of psychedelics and humans is really in its infant stage (if you can even call it that).  For me, my HPPD is from closely spaced high dose LSD trips so I can't really offer much advise on microdosing other than I have done it with mushrooms but at the time I was also tripping pretty frequently.  In order to deal with my OCD, depression and GAD I use SSRIs combined with cognitive behavioral therapy, regular exercise, meditation and complete sobriety.  This combination has worked for several years with the exception of a brief period of marijuana use a few months ago.  I have found stability, productivity and genuine happiness on average with the above.  For me, pot always causes the visuals and other issues to flare up.  Knowing you have HPPD when symptoms are subtle is a tricky business.  Maybe they'll never change and you can smoke and microdose until you feel better, but maybe you can't.  I will say this though, for me I wish I had used more caution than I had, however my use was during a self destructive period.  Now I have to resign to the fact that the distortions will probably never go away.  But hey, I'm currently getting my PhD in math, I have a child and another on the way and am happily married.  Life is not over, we can always adapt.  For me I had to choose between getting 'high and finding the solution' and what brings me the most joy.  It's a simple choice but it's difficult to make, especially for an addict.   I wish you the best, let us know how things go. 

Take Care,

Nick 

Edited June 28, 2021 by cosmiccharlie

[Fawkinchit]

5 hours ago, kmt1993 said:

I spent quite a bit of time on google looking specifically for a study on a microdosing regimen and it’s link to hppd to no avail, that’s how I wound up here. Not to say I didn’t find anything about potential negatives. The study you just showed me is actually the first one I’ve seen like that. However I think that even most of the anecdotal data available here is probably more useful than that study is for a couple of reasons. The first being that a proper microdose schedule (at least the one I adhered/may continue to adhere to after taking a lot of time to learn as much as possible) is spaced out every 3 days rather than continuously dosed every day for 7 days. the second reason being that 80 micrograms over 7 days is more than 10 micrograms a day, which I understand is easily a microdose for a human but let’s think about the fact that you are giving a 180 lb human microdose to a <5lb rat. I can’t consider that a low dose relative to the specific animal in question. I would like to see studies done on humans taking properly spaced out micro doses/threshold doses more than anything. 

 

Those are valid points. However its unarguable that microdosing causes HPPD, there are numerous people to attest to the fact that thats how they got it.

 

 

Just going to randomly throw this article in here lmao... wtf

A woman took 550 times the usual dose of LSD, with surprisingly positive consequences

https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/27/health/lsd-overdoses-case-studies-wellness/index.html

Edited June 27, 2021 by Fawkinchit

[kmt1993]

I appreciate the responses a lot, what were the first symptoms you guys noticed when it started?

[cosmiccharlie]

Response to weed was probably my first; I started noticing that when I would smoke I would get fairly intense visuals.  Also, when I would feel anxious sometimes while sober they would come.  

[Fawkinchit]

Edit

Edited June 30, 2021 by Fawkinchit