Any answers? My brains totally not medically minded.

[Monkey_magic]

I don't know if I should post this on this forum or the pharmaceutical one but hey. Just got a few questions to ask those that have more knowledge of hppd than me (just about everybody I reckon). Any forthcoming answers would be great. And in as laymans terms as possible lol.

I like the sound of this Keppra as I've tried loads a stuff to no avail. Especially on the old sharpness and cognition front (to actually be able to hone in on something and focus...sigh).so my queries are these.

1. Theoretically how does Keppra help hppd?

2. What to you take (if anything) in conjunction with it to help its effects or is it ok just to take itself?

3. Can you take ssris with keppra because depression has always been pretty much a big part of my hppd and I'm taking an ssri at the moment and scared to come off it incase the black dog takes a chunk out my leg.

4. If sinemet is another drug that helps a fair percentage of hppdrs can you take Keppra and Sinemet in a spreading your bets type thing or is that a stupid question?

5. How does GABA effect hppd?

6. Off subject but does ECT effect hppd severity and would it help it? (I must be desperate).

That'll do for now lol. Muchos obliged to anyone that bothers to reply. Cheers.

Kev

P.s come on Andy Murray!

[VisualDude]

1 -- Unknown. Actually very little is known how Keppra works (as is true with many meds - scary huh?). References speak mainly of SV2 proteins (Synaptic Vesicles 2 -- says a lot don't it, lol). Since research has been done with dopamine-knock-out-mice, RLS, and Parkinson's, then somehow this synaptic function does at times involve dopaminergic neurons.

2 and 4 -- One member takes Klonopin, Keppra, and Sinemet together and speaks highly of how their life has improved.

3 -- Probably no issues ... however be careful of SSRIs. Most with HPPD don't do well with them, though they are 'not forbidden'. In some regards, overactive/overstimulated serotonin systems seem to be at the heart of HPPD. And, as you know, getting off SSRIs is very difficult ... the withdrawls "discontinuance problems" are mean. Your depression could be from low dopamine, not low serotonin.

5 -- Many symptoms of HPPD involve 'cerebral disinhibitions' (over-active brain). Benzodiazepine attach to many GABA receptors (which are inhibitory) and 'slow' overactivity. Klonopin is historically the best-of-the-benzos for HPPD. But "there is no such thing as a free lunch" -- must be used with care

6 -- ECT is used to treat some 'cerebral disihibitions'. Don't know if it helps HPPD. Be sure and let us know how it goes for you ... ( or in the vernacular, You First )

It might help if you describe what your depression is like. Also, you could list your HPPD symptoms (the constellation tends to be unique to each individual).

[Monkey_magic]

Haha. Nice picture.

Depression is just linked undoubtedly to the rest of it. It comes in waves and il go into a black mood for 10-20 minutes, and at the same time my dp/dr pop along for the ride and worsen so they all seem to piggy back on each other. And my visuals get worse too. Then it will lessen off a bit and il on average have about 4 or 5 of these mini episodes a day. (at the moment, the last 6 months things are getting steadily worse). This happened before years ago and I broke down, had a year of hppd madness and then it 'died down', almost as if the electrical over activity just worked its way down if not to normality then to a base level and then slowly starts building again over years till now. Which is why I wonder if I just got ect, reset my brain and get it over and done with lol.

I've taken acid on about 20 different occasions give or take. And mushrooms 10 or so times. But as a teenager, im 36 now. Some dodgyish trips in there and i did suffer mild dp/dr before full blown hppd but I credit ecstasy use as the catalyst. A few times before I woke up with the condition, I had taken E and felt like my brain was going to split right down the middle. Yet I still done it again a week later. Ah, the folly of youth.

I've been on pzac for 15 years after gettin hppd. It initially worked well for me and just 'fitted' right. (at the time).It took away the depression and dp/dr well, and because my anxiety was down my visuals even went down a fair bit, just kinda lingering in the background. My cognition and ability to focus we're still off though but I was happy enough with the things that had improved. Then my girlfriend got pregnant had my boy, and the stress and lack of sleep (and me self medicating on alcohol and benzos) brought back the hppd with a vengeance. The prozacs never felt as effective since. But I still feel it 'keeps the wolf from the door' so to speak. I'd rather try Keppra as it supposedly improves cognition which is a big thing for me.

hppd symptoms.: vs, static (same thing innit), blurred vision, Slight trails, afterimages. Vertigo. Feeling of static things moving as if I was just off a merry go round, and if I look at pictures that are in a frame I get the feeling or expect them to move and talk like the pictures in Harry potter. That's a weird one.

[Monkey_magic]

Hey visual. How would one know whether they're low in dopamine as opposed to serotonin? Is there telltale signs or just a case of try Wellbutrin or the like and if your ok it must be extra dopamine you need?

[gill]

In my experience, keppra is a depressant, or maybe more specifically felt like a 'stabilizer'; which was expected, since it's an anti-epileptic, used to stop a seizure. Side effects outweighed any benefits for me though. Theoretically there's some neural disinhibition in some areas of the brain with hppd; so then taking something which helps increase neural inhibition may help. Problem of course though is that it doesn't know where in the brain the most help is needed; it just binds everywhere... not too efficient imo.

[Monkey_magic]

I suppose it's just your luck whether it works well for you or not then. If you throw enough mud at something, something's gotta stick. What were your side effects gill? A psych won't give someone Keppra if they have a history of depression anyway will they?

[2muchmandy]

I actually wondered about the ECT aswell kev. I know that schitzos and epeleptics feel much much better after it so would it work for us.

[Monkey_magic]

Yeah, it's got a bad rep for obvious reasons (one flew over the cookoos nest?!). But I think it resets the brain in some cases and increases GABA. Worst case scenario type shit.

[2muchmandy]

Yeah but usually they would put you to sleep then give you the treatment, they gave it to him when he was awake for punishment.

I dunno if its something id be willing to try

[mgrade]

ECT is scary. I believe it only helps like 20% people who have had it. Other stories include people who have been irreparably damaged: Lou Reed, girl from Baywatch, the Kennedy girl, the NYT journalist, etc. People who supported this therapy would suggest it sometimes for people who did not need it. And as far as I am concerned, most Drs. who would advise this treatment, I would put in the same category as Dr. Walter Freeman, the inventor of the ice-pick lobotomy.

Einstein looked a little crazy, maybe we should have used a little ECT on him, to make him a little more simple.

[VisualDude]

Hey visual. How would one know whether they're low in dopamine as opposed to serotonin? Is there telltale signs or just a case of try Wellbutrin or the like and if your ok it must be extra dopamine you need?

It is hard to say, but here is some interesting info,

Effectiveness of tricyclics for depression is about 12% better than a placebo

Effectiveness of SSRs for depression is about 8% better than a placebo

So, try a placebo first, lol.

Don't know the effectiveness of Wellbutrin (the only antidepressant that involves dopamine).

You describe black mood for 10-20 minutes ... about 4 or 5 of these mini episodes a day. Clearly this is not 'normal' depression. It is some sort of dysregulation - the brain flopping back and forth, unable to lock-in-to 'normal'. This kind of 'flopping' isn't really 'bipolar', but mood stabilizing meds might help. Keppra is such (but with 'Keppra rage', take plenty B6).

There are lots of things to try. "Cerebral disinhibition" again comes to mind. Klonopin is the HPPD savior (and potential devil). Dr A's drug test involved raising dopamine to enable better 'inhibition' (dopaminergic neurons are mini-decision makers - they regulate the 'loudness' of signals). So perhaps Sinemet is worth trying. Ultimately, trying stuff to 'inhibit' is where the attention belongs. [ "throw enough mud at something, something's gotta stick" ]

Have you tried slowly reducing Prozac?

Looking at your HPPD symptoms,

blurred vision, Slight trails, afterimages - these tend to be dopamine related

vs, static - more complex, there is some dopamine and acetylcholine relation. Seems to be a stonger relation to GABA

Vertigo - hard to say. Is it true vertigo? or a feeling related to 'static things moving'?

Feeling of static things moving as if I was just off a merry go round, and if I look at pictures that are in a frame I get the feeling or expect them to move - this is cause by problems of the brain integrating Focal Visual Processing and Ambient Visual Processing (two separate, very different systems). Much of this integration occurs in the mid brain which is the richest dopamine area. Sinemet may help. I find that Gabapentin helps things but too much can increase certain movement. So again we see dopamine and GABA dysregulations being central to many HPPD symptoms.

I actually wondered about the ECT aswell kev. I know that schitzos and epeleptics feel much much better after it so would it work for us.

It would be a challege to get a doctor to do this - - - and it isn't something you want to try at home

[Monkey_magic]

Isn't that a bit of a contradiction in terms though that Keppra stabilises moods but increases irritability. What kinda 'rages' does Keppra give the average user? A little bit ticked off than usual rage if your in a long queue or throw your grannie through a window rage? I get pretty irritable at times anyway which is strange cos I see myself as one of the most laid back people around. Think I'm potentially part bipolar cos I don't have any 'middle ground' in any aspect of my personality.

I got a script of klonopins off my doc last month for the first time but I took them all within a couple of weeks. There was 28 0.5mgs. They were good, but my doc prob won't give me any more so soon cos she said use sparingly. Damn.

Whenever I've came off pzac it's always been at a bad time and my hppds getting to its peak and when I do the dp/dr and depression just get to much. I want to try n come off it to see where I'm at. It'd just be askin for trouble just now though. The trauma part of the hppd is kickin up a storm at the mo. stress, adrenaline and cortisol are at their peaks. I'm just attempting to wait it out. everything I do seems to just add to the locked in stress so I'm doing as little as possible.lol.

[2muchmandy]

thought about a shrink? im askin to get refered to one, vents alla that shit out, lets you try chill

im also curious to the rage aspect of keppra, i get really aggitated and worked up sometimes so i dunno if a rage enducing drug would benefit me atal. i really wanna try something though and nip this shit in the bud. i need to get a new job soon so id like to be able to not worry about freakin out whilst learning a new environment/job

[VisualDude]

What kinda 'rages' does Keppra give the average user? A little bit ticked off than usual rage if your in a long queue or throw your grannie through a window rage?

Your question should be a poll. I find it irritating and mood destabilizing. But probably if took time-release it would be ok. B6 helps lots.

I got a script of klonopins off my doc last month for the first time but I took them all within a couple of weeks. There was 28 0.5mgs. They were good...

How were they good? Did they help visuals? ( I thing most people have to take quite a lot more to help visuals )

[Monkey_magic]

Hopefully my phych says i can give it (keppra) a try. As long as i dont kill anybody and a couple of members iv read says it works quite fast. Within a week if your gonna see benefits? If it can ease this brain fog a bit il be a happy chappy.but not at the expense of biting folks heads off at the smallest thing.

Yeah, i never took less than 1mg at a time, n max i took maybe 3mg. Died down the visuals maybe 20% at best. But theyre quite bad just now so that was not bad going. Didnt have any real major dr episodes in the fortnight i was popping them though i noticed. I drank a few times with them th9ugh and took tramadol for a buzz on 3 or 4 occasions which was a bit daft.

[2muchmandy]

Im gunna try it aswell, or sinimet, really unsure what to try. Will be nice to speak to the neuro.

[Jay1]

I wonder if you should look into Lamictal rather than (or with) Keppra.

It is an anti seizure med but also has anti depressant qualities.

[2muchmandy]

I can ask my neuro about it and pass on the info to u kev?

[Monkey_magic]

Aye man that would be sound, cheers. Can a neurologist make out anything in a hppd brain with a scan?

Lamictal sounds allright jay. Im willing to try anything at the mo because my heads up my arse. Last time i saw my psychiatrist she said she wanted to try me on pregabalin, but to me that sounds like trying to stop a tsunami with a spoon. I need something decent to block the shit from my subconscious at the source. Bet she trys to fob me off.

[Jay1]

I think pregabalin is pretty strong.... knocks me on my ass if I do enough, but does nowt for my visuals/anxiety.... but I know others here have found it helped.

Other than benzos.... I think all these other meds are hit and miss, maybe even placebos... but worth a go if your doc is willing. Keppra and Lamictal both had some effect on me (maybe 20/30% helpful) but had side effects that didn't agree with me.

[2muchmandy]

Are u on meds jay apart from the odd klono?

[Jay1]

at the moment, no.... sometimes a sleeping pill (Zopiclone) when insomnia is at its worst .... they do some strange things to my visuals though, not bad... but strange, they take away some of the VS but bring these dark webs to my vision.

such a pain that benzos/non benzos are so addictive.... they definatly target the right area.

[2muchmandy]

My mate gave me a load of zopiclone to try before hppd but I never took em. Too scared. I dunno why the cant put someone in a brain scanner give them klono. See what areas its effecting then bam. U have ur target hppd area

[mgrade]

Yea, they have Functional MRIs, that do that kinda stuff, I think; but you think someone would already done it, somewhere.