Acetylcholine, sleep-wake cycle, and eidetic imagery

[Guest]

http://psychedelic-information-theory.com/Eidetic-Hallucination

This article comes closest to describing what I've been experiencing for 2 1/2 years.

I know that Tylenol PM which contains diphenhydramine is an antihistamine that is anticholinergic. It made me go into a full blown mental trip when I took it 2 years ago to try to sleep.

The thing is, my long term memory is extremely sharp. I can recall memories from 3 and 4 years old perfectly in my mind as if they're happening in that moment.

Most of you guys know that my worst symptom is the mental imagery and constant moving, intrusive images. Also with the intrusive thoughts and images there's an OCD component but there also seems to be a component where memory consolidation has been altered (the hippocampus?).

I can look at anything and see it instantly in my head. It's almost like my thoughts are lightning quick and whatever I think about appears as a mental image, or whatever I look at.

At first I figured because of my excellent memory I might have too much choline but I know the brain isn't as simple as that. If an anticholinergic put me into a full blown mental circus am I going in the right direction looking at choline supplements? But wouldn't I already have a lot of choline because of my excellent memory?

What am I missing here?

 

[Guest]

Quitting smoking made me worse 6 months on IMO. I mention that because of the nicotinic acetylcholine receptor but I don't know what effect it would have.

Honestly I've been under so much stress with money and businesses imploding and people dying that I can't get perspective on what's what anymore.

Edited May 16, 2018 by Guest

[Guest]

@Onemorestep what do you think?

What med or supplements should I be looking at to try to reduce this?

Edited May 16, 2018 by Guest

[Onemorestep]

I’ll have to give this a good read when I have a bit of time. Life is a bit hectic right now with business and preparing for a long trip to Europe.

 

from a very brief skim... this is fascinating stuff. I’ve always thought that acetylcholine plays a pretty major role in hppd but it’s just one piece of a very complex puzzle. Drugs that effect it downstream have helped me in the past... but understanding why is more difficult.

 

ive unfortunately not done a huge amount of research into anticholinergic usage and issues that arise from it. The only thing I think I’ve read is it can cause damage to the basal ganglia. But that might be secondary to other disregulation and effects. I’m not sure... I can’t give you any strong suggestions for things to try. I’m a big advocate of bpc-157 and I know it has some effect on cholinergic signaling at least in the body (eyes).... but that’s kinda something I tell people to try because it’s so holistic and adaptogenic. It seems to correct a lot of different neurotransmitter systems involved in hppd. Don’t know if it will last forever but it certainly made a difference for me. I didn’t read much about it effecting many cholinergic neurons.

 

the interesting part is the combination of hallucinogens, dissasociatives, AND acetylcholine precursors causing a really bad time. Hppd seems to not only disregulate the 5ht2a receptor and keeping one in a “trip” state, but from my personal experience it severely diminished my glutamate receptor functioning and increased AND decreased my acetylcholine levels in different areas. The only thing I’ve found that decreases the acetylcholine is keppra and subsequent withdrawals from it. Seems to be a permanent effect. Why, I have no idea. I do know that people who have withdrawn quickly from drugs like lamictal, keppra, and benzodiazepines have complained about “cognitive issues” that I believe are related to poor acetylcholine functioning as the withdrawal from these drugs seems to have reversed the semi permanent effect of coluracetam on my brain (a high affinity choline uptake enhancer). But this is all speculation.

 

sorry I can’t be of more use right now. 

[Onemorestep]

@TheMythos

 

did quitting smoking make this worse worse right away? I keep a really steady amount of nicotine (not tobacco) in my system theorizing that the downregulation of those receptors is actually good for my symptoms.... I’m also quite addicted haha.

 

have you ever tried uridine? I’m just curious. It would be interesting to know if that helped or hurt. 

[Guest]

10 hours ago, Onemorestep said:

@TheMythos

 

did quitting smoking make this worse worse right away? I keep a really steady amount of nicotine (not tobacco) in my system theorizing that the downregulation of those receptors is actually good for my symptoms.... I’m also quite addicted haha.

 

have you ever tried uridine? I’m just curious. It would be interesting to know if that helped or hurt. 

I've never tried uridine. 

Quitting smoking made it worse and turned my consciousness more body inwards where I started feeling my stomach more and the middle of my chest. I started getting bad heartburn after I quit so I kept seeing my ribcage in my head.

And for me it's like when one sensation' s been opened it gets stored in the memory banks easier. I've "forgotten" these things and then have an intrusive thought about my stomach and it pops up again. 

Like I said the stress has been overwhelming so I'm not sure if this is psychological too with people dying and whatnot. 

The imagery started turning violent after I quit.

I've re-entered therapy and a mental health facility and I'm wondering what to ask for. I might be able to get klonopin again and I read an anecdotal scientific report where some guys symptoms went away permanently after 4 months of klonopin use. The effects remained after he got off of it.

I just don't get why my hppd would be choline based because the only dissociatives I've done were Amanita muscaria and salvia. I never did dxm or ketamine or anything like that. And I don't even know if salvia messes with acetylcholine.

Are you saying if I did try keppra for a while and got off the effects would be permanent? Even the cognitive ones?

Edited May 17, 2018 by Guest

[Onemorestep]

@TheMythos

 

coming off keppra actually made me less intelligent. Fucked my memory back to the state it was pre coluracetam/baclofen therapy. However, I think this is where my brain wants to be. I could increase my memory again through cholinergics but it makes me horribly depressed.

 

aminita is a cholinergic agonist I think? I think you can overdose on it and get cholinergic poisoning. One thing I’ve noticed with hppd is my cholinergic neurons don’t seem to understand homeostasis anymore. They take a very long time to go back to where they are supposed to be. If I take things that boost it, the effect is seemingly permanent for like a year or two before it returns to normal. Idk what that’s about.

 

 

[Onemorestep]

Perhaps give uridine a shot. 

 

You may be right and your hppd isn’t choline based. It could be other neurotransmitters/receptors are out of whack making your current cholinergic functioning uncomfortable. I know my cholinergic receptors aren’t damaged, but my dopamine/glutamate ones are. This makes having normal levels of acetylcholine rather uncomfortable for me. Anhedonia, depressed mood, etc. no fun.

[Guest]

I took the Amanita like 11 years ago. You really think I'd be poisoned after all this time? How would uridine help?

[brendan]

slight tangent, but i started taking 400mg of calcium (as carbonate dissolved in malic acid) as my blood level showed up as on the low border of normal.  It knocked me out and i slept for much longer on the first dose.  I took it before bed next time and again within half an hour i was really drowsy and even a bit euphoric till i (quickly) went to sleep.  I have heard of magnesium doing this but not calcium. I think the effect of each dose has started to wear off a bit after a week but i only take before bed so hard to tell, but don't get the intense lovely drowsiness any more.  I googled it and it seems it helps regulate circadium rhythm by creating melatonin.  I wonder if you improve sleep enough the unprocessed hallucinogen information would gradually get properly consolidated into memory rather than staying conscious.