Benzo wd syndrome -- psych questioning its validity

[rollingregret]

So it's month 8 since my hppd/klonopin debacle. It was early last December that my clinic doc unwisely made me cut my clonazepam too quickly and for no reason. All that info is in the other threads I've posted in and members here have helped me a lot by posting and PMing.

I'm now on 4.5mg of klonopin and I switched from generic to brand. It's been exactly 4 weeks since increasing to that dose from 4 (and a month before was on 3.5 and so on).

My symptoms of the initial benzo wd have since 2.75mg (which I held for 2 months) improved slightly but I have residual muscle tension, dizziness and a feeling of skin crawling. These are sort of compounded into "attacks" so I first get the dizziness/balance issue, then the muscle tension and then the skin crawling.

Based on the advice of at least two members of this board who had their K dropped too quickly, I think waiting on a stable dose may be more effective than constantly increasing to find a dose at which my symptoms come completely under control. The "attacks" have become less frequent at 4.5 than 4 and 3.5, but they're still there and I'm still not back to baseline.

My assessment of the situation is that the prolonged wd (staying at 2.75 for many months hoping to stabilize) has put me in this situation and even if I had immediately updosed upon experiencing wd symtoms during the cuts, it still may have taken me some time to stabilize (again, based on similar stories). Of course, I waited over 2 months to increase to 3 (which was still below my original dose) and only crept up to my original stable dose 5 months later, which I believe has seriously set me back in terms of the K being effective either due to induced tolerance or a general disruption of the homeostasis.

Anyway, getting to the good part. I recently had a second visit with a psychiatrist who is well informed about my situation. I explained what my thoughts were on the whole benzo cutting, resultant wd, delayed updose, GABA disruption, failure to remedy even by going above my previous stable dose, etc. I was advised to either keep upping the K, but also if I thought time was a factor, staying at the same dose for however long I thought was useful. More importantly, I was advised to throw additional medications into the mix such as gabapentin as well as SSRIs. Why? Because I should be treating the way I feel and not the hypothetical effects of benzo withdrawal. In other words, the concept of these symptoms occurring as a result of my recent history was foreign, i.e. the psychiatrist didn't believe in benzo withdrawal, prolonged withdrawal, the syndrome or anything that we all are acutely aware of. Yes, the anti-benzo sites are a bit much and they are in many ways harmful, but it seems strange to not even be aware that reducing klonopin too much or too fast can cause such effects. The Ashton work was dismissed as being anecdotal, although any study on benzos is just that -- anecdotal (in that they ask the patient how they feel after whatever treatment). So the subjective is converted to the objective.

In any case, I'm troubled because:

a) I don't think adding drugs to this problem is going to solve it

this is clearly the effects of a rapid cut (the solution to which I have no clear answer...time or dose or both, but certainly not other drugs to mask benzo wd)

c) this psychiatrist is someone who I hold in high regard, but I can't fathom that they are unaware of the reason benzos are vilified so much

d) this psychiatrist is Dr. Abraham!

Just to be clear, I have the utmost respect for Dr. A. He has helped me with an official diagnosis for HPPD. The issue is that we're talking about something that every psych in the world (or so I thought) is aware of and in fact guides the policy of NOT prescribing benzos. The whole addiction, tolerance, dependence matter is based on the mechanisms that are involved in my problem so it just seems strange that he would suggest that I ignore the fact that this is the result of having altered my response to klonopin via the cut (even though it's a direct result of it, not a loose correlation).

Anyway, any advice or comments regarding this? Perhaps adding another drug would help, but I believe it would be covering up this benzo problem, which itself is covering up the HPPD. My goal is to get back to a point (now that my original doctor has accepted that I need klonopin to treat HPPD) where the drug is working for me sans residual effects. I think that adding more to the equation muddies the interpretation of what's going on. The best advice I've been given is that my system just needs time to re-calibrate and that even increasing my dose shakes up the GABA receptor relationship. In other words, waiting for a few months at 4.5 is more likely to work than updosing until the symptoms disappear (which they never have since the original idiotic cuts).

[rollingregret]

Bump.

Nobody has any advice regarding adding additional meds?

As I mentioned, what I'm experiencing is pure and simple benzo withdrawal (note: not due to complete discontinuation of klonopin, just a rapid cut from 3.5 to 2.75) that won't go away, possibly due to increased tolerance, possibly due to a CNS shock.

The question is, would adding anything like anti-depressants, Gabapentin, etc. alleviate my symptoms? My guess is no because essentially my issue is with a deregulation of the GABA system due to one of many possible mechanisms of GABA-A receptor alteration. Mayyyyybe Gabapentin, but isn't that just adding more fuel to the fire? Should I increase my dose or ride it out for a few months? Would reallllly appreciate some input, I'm at wits end. Thanks!

[Jay1]

I can't give you any advice, i'm afraid.... But wanted to wish you good luck with this, hope you start to see the light at the end of the tunnel soon.

I hope people here take note of the very difficult struggle that benzo withdrawal brings.

[rollingregret]

Thanks Jay. I hope I see even just a momentary beam of light as well. It's hard not knowing which direction to go in. You're quite correct about the benzo struggle. I should point out, however that for those of us that do choose this route either because we have debilitating symptoms or because we want to give it a try, IMO it's not a problem due to the inherent addictive nature of the benzos (although tolerance for many is a problem). It can also be the mismanagement of them by a doctor who doesn't know what they're doing (e.g. new doctor not recognizing HPPD and making you cut your K rapidly). Nevermind the HPPD aspect of it, some doctors don't know how to properly deal with benzos alone.

Anyone else who can chime in, please do!

[Jay1]

So many doctors seem clueless about this stuff..... My neuro says klono is not addictive for epilepsy patients... Something I just can't believe is true. I understand they have alot to learn and keep upto date with, but you would think they would know about the more addictive, dangerous and popular drugs.

ps - I know I warn people off benzos alot, but I hope people don't think I look down on anyone who does make the choice to take them, long term. I respect everyone's choices when it comes to dealing with this god awful shit.

[1998]

I started taking 1200 mg's of gabapentin for back pain 3 months ago. It hasn't done too much for the pain, but It has helped w/ my sleep cycle as well as klonopin w/d's. For me it helps relieve shaking and somehow depression.

That bad thing is when I first started taking gabapentin I fealt very suicidal and numb to life or even caring for it. I stuck it out and after a week I started feeling calmer and slightly happier. I'm extremely happy w/ the results. I know it somehow helps w/ klonopin w/d's cause sometimes I'll forget to take it. Before I counted down the minutes till my next dose.

When I make my next klonopin cut (prob not for a while working) I'll let you know how well it works.

Please don't take this med because it somehow is helping me, just telling you how I feel on it.

[rollingregret]

Much appreciated, 98, I know you've gone through your fair share of f'd up klonopin reductions (are you at 3.25 or 3 these days?). If I decided to take the med, I wouldn't put it all on your experience, but it certainly helps inform me that it is a possible solution.

The things that worry me are:

- side effects of other drugs

- since all I'm trying to do is reverse the effects of the rapid cut and remain on klonopin, I would rather get a clear brain "on klonopin" than one suffering from messed up receptor sites but covered up with another drug

I've been reading up on gabapentin and it sounds like in addition to the side effects, it's just as hard to withdraw from. If I got on it, it might mean that I would have to have both klonopin and gabapentin in my arsenal.

I was under the impression that you had stabilized on your last cut from K a long time ago (when you came down from 3.5 to 3.25 even before I started cutting). What w/ds are you referring to that gabapentin seemed to help with? As it stands, my symptoms are mainly muscular and dizziness. I really wonder if they'll just fade over time or if I do need to add this to my regimen. I'm having such a crap day today, as if I'm never going to get out of this. I guess I should first ask my doctor if she's willing to even try it out. Dr. A recommended it, but he can't prescribe it to me himself. Glad to know that it's working for you, though.

Also Jay, yes that is indeed extremely strange re: no addition for epileptics. I do know that in that situation it's framed more as "patients don't tend to be susceptible to dose escalation, and the benefits of taking benzos outweigh the costs". I think again the words addition and dependence get mixed up for those doctors. As you might have read in my first post, I'm very surprised that Dr. Abraham is dismissive of protracted benzo w/d symptoms. I think it's problematic because it doesn't address what the root problem is (IMO receptor adaptation/modification).

[mgrade]

Dear RollingRegret,

I will try to help you. Now Dr. A is the leading HPPD guy for like 30 years. But the man is human. The dose of Klonopin that you are on is pretty damn large. And if i was on that dosage, instead of one form of zombie i am without Klonopin, i would be another form of zombie. But you have already brought your body up to this large amount. And I think Dr. A realizes that some people react differently to certain drugs, and i feel that because of the subjective nature of people and their reaction to certain drugs, a lot of the treatments become trial-and-error. For this reason you cannot fault DR. A.

Nevertheless, I have, personally, had some weird experiences with Benzos esp. Klonopin. They can be very sedating. And I think the comedown from some of these drugs can make you feel worse than the bad-feeling before you had taken it. My advise to you is in the next 1-2 months ween yourself down to 1 mg/day. (maybe 1/2 twice a day). Do this slowly. Maybe, get on Lexapro/Celexa, and/or Wellbutrin XL too. I am not a doctor, but have a lot of experience with these drugs first hand. You could if you wanted to, ask your doctor about those drugs and if it would fit into your HPP treatment.

[rollingregret]

Hey mgrade, thanks for your response!

I should say that I'm not faulting Dr. A for suggesting I use other medications or increase dose of K. I'm just surprised at how he is unaware (or more correctly, doubting) of the effects of benzo reduction given it's a VERY well-documented area. It's almost like denying gravity. The fact that I made some pretty rapid cuts acc. to doctor's orders that resulted in the typical w/d effects removes the mystery of why I started to feel like crap. It's textbook. The real question is how to remedy it. I've begun to think it's more a benzo problem than it is an HPPD problem since a vast majority of people who reduce it too quickly develop the same situation. Take a look at benzobuddies. While I disagree with their philosophy of "benzos are poison, get off NOW!", one can't really deny that thousands, maybe millions of people are suffering from trying to reduce their benzo (some even off of 0.25).

The last stable dose that I was on (back last December before I started those cuts) was 3.5mg/day. It could be considered high, but as you say, everyone reacts differently. I didn't get to that amount by escalation. It was basically like a starting dose that treated my symptoms completely. I know some people are on 6 or even 9! Obviously this is not an enviable situation. By comedown, I assume you mean withdrawal symptoms and you are quite right about that. As for the coming down -- herein lies the big problem:

The reduction has screwed my GABA system royally. Coming down CAUSED this problem in the first place. I realize you mean wean slowly, even microtaper, but I'm afraid it wouldn't ameliorate my situation, in fact would likely make it worse. The last thing I need is less GABA activity. I'm trying to find a way to get my receptors to react just as they had before, which is a problem faced by people trying to get off benzos, who go too fast and get trapped with symptoms that don't seem to fade. The big question then is "does updosing work?" to which the general consensus is 50/50. Again, it could require more time at a constant dose to allow my CNS to reach homeostasis. At the same time, I've been going through this hell for 8 months now and badly need an out. If I knew 6mg would do the trick, honestly I would do it just to stabilize. Sadly, I don't know that.

I think adding ADs to the mix is dangerous because I don't see the upside, only the side effects and additional problems of more medications. To the best of my knowledge ADs don't wipe out prolonged w/d. The only thing that does is tapering off (would take 2 years min. for me) very very slowly (like you mentioned), while suffering and then possibly suffering for several more years until your receptors recover. Then, you're still left with the physical HPPD symptoms (which I think are anxiety linked) and nothing to help. Also, there is no way I could get to 1mg in 2 months considering I'm already in w/d and it was caused by reducing less than 10% every 10 days three times. I am open to Gabapentin since it seems to have helped others, including 1998, who posted about it above.

If you don't mind me asking, what was your timeline for Klonopin (dose, how long you took it, how you got off it)? You're extremely correct about the trial and error thing. I'm struggling now with what to try next (giving 4.5 more time vs. increasing dose vs. adding gabapentin). These could all work, but I don't think doing two or more simultaneously would help identify the problem (I feel like dose increases also shake up your receptors).

[mgrade]

I've had 3 separate instances of persistant flashbacks (~24/7) in about 15 years. My benzodiazepine experience is ~10-15 years. In the beginning, before HPPD, I just took Lorazepam when I had anxiety, maybe 3x a year, at a dose of 1/2 mg/a time.

About 5 years ago, i got persistant flashbacks that began in a quasi-psychotic break. I was taking like 2 mg/day for a year. The next year: 1 mg/day. Then I took Ativan (loraz.) only when i needed it (10-20x a year @ 1/2-2 mg).

6 months ago I get HPPD-stuff again i get, from some weird circumstances. I was taking 1/2 to 1.5 mg Klonopin virtually every day for 4 months. And now ~6 months since the commencement of persistant hallucinations, things are starting to get somewhat better. I take about 1/4 to 2 klonopin every 1 or 2 weeks.

Your problem is anxiety/panic, a good deal, it seems. Some of these ADs are used for anxiety. You got to bite the bullet, so to speak, and step out and see if you can get-along w/o so much benzo. Some of it is w/d symptoms but some of it is anxiety and fear that has just been masked. You see klonopin is a long lasting drug for most benzos; so you can take it everyday and so each dose will overlap and you will never actually comedown off of the Klonopin. This is ok but.......well you are not on Xanax, so tapering off is not nearly as dangerous. When I say comedown, i mean actually "coming down" off the drug. I know its ok to take these drugs like that. But it seems that Klonopin and Ativan are designed, in my experience, for more sporadic, panic-like instances.

[gill]

I'm curious as to why you decided to cut back on the klonopin rollingregret. Long term effects?

[1998]

Rollingregret, almost typed rollinggreat lol, anyways sucks to hear you're still not stabilized. You really shocked your system when trying to cut down. I honestly don't read any benzo boards anymore because it just makes me anxious to the point of freaking out.

I was on 3.25mg for almost a yr. but for some dumb reason I just upped it to 3.5mg when I didn't even need to. So angry at myself!

When I cut .25mg these are the wd symtoms I'll have for 3 weeks to 1 month. Increased headpressure, shaking, tinnitus, dizziness, nausea(sp?) weakness, anger, depression, insomnia, muscle spasms and twitching and RLS which I normally don't have.

The good thing is towards the end of each taper I always start to feel almost exactly how I did before the cut. I just haven't done any huge drops like you to shock my cns, even though .25mg of klono is = to 5mg of valium.

Just know you will feel better eventually, always remember that. I wouldn't bother w/ those benzo boards just keep your mind and body occupied. Having hppd a major anxiety disorder in itself makes these klono cuts hell!!!!

Have you tried clonidine for w/d's. They gave it to me before for opiate w/d's and it helped w/ the sweating and shaking, I still get prescribed it and it does help my klonopin withdrawals as far as shaking and cold sweats. I would prob pick that over gabapentin even though it's a bp. med.

You know more about benzo's then me at this point, but I would still stick to whatever dosage you're at and just wait it out. Going up only means you'll have to cut down even more later on when tolerence w/d's start.

I really wish I knew if I'm going through tolerance w/d's right now and I just fight through them daily, or If I'm just tolerant. I'm hoping for tolerance.

Later man message me anytime!! I don't think I got back to you on the last one Hadn't been online in weeks sorry

[cs1234]

well rollingregret it's crazy you got a doc that's giving you 4.5mg k a day. I mean I would shit a brick if my doc would even consider 1mg a day for me lol. I don't have any advice about adding other meds into the mix, but all I have to say is the longer you wait the harder the wds are gonna be. Don't be afraid to go slowly. Have you set up a WD plan at all yet?

[mgrade]

I've come to the conclusion, take it if you need it. But if you don't need it, don't take it. (those r my wrds of wsdm)

[rollingregret]

So to address a couple of things:

Gill - I had absolutely no reason to start cutting, I was doing great on it for 4 years. Clinic doctor changed, new one didn't believe in HPPD, forced me to start cutting. She also wasn't aware of how carefully one should wd from benzos, HPPD or not. I never had a single side effect even at doses of 4 and 3.5mg. Since our receptor responses vary so much, I think comparing doses is also not an exact science. No dopey feeling, minimal cognitive effects. It really was working just great.

98 - I definitely have been angry with myself for going above what I was at before considering I had years of stability on one dose, but when your life is flipped upside down, and I'm talking about being at month 9 (as you know), dose starts to matter less than the opportunity of reaching stability. I remember actually that my cut in March 2011 from 4 to 3.5 took about 6 days to stabilize whereas you, as you mentioned were having trouble with getting down from 3.5 to 3.25 for 5 weeks, but you did stabilize then. Just shows how complex this is. The big factor IMO during my cuts of death in December were that they came so close together. I think if I had just made a cut from 3.5 to 3.25, I would have been ok. The extra two cuts (although less than 10% each time) had not allowed my system to stabilize truly from the original cut. So the weaning process needs to be really slow. My doctor pushed me and I was also fooled my my own system that took too long to tell me something was wrong. Cautionary tale. You've been cutting correctly, keep that up. Definitely don't race towards a certain goal even if you feel ok after a cut. And LOL @ rollinggreat!

cs1234 - As I said above, I think our comparison of doses doesn't give a good picture since we all differ in terms of the drug's pharmacodynamics and pharmacokinetics. That and add on our individualized forms of HPPD and what 0.5 is to one person is 2 to someone else. It's all about getting that same baseline level of GABA activity. You're lucky that something like 0.5 (I'm guessing) works well for you. I hope it stays that way. That being said, at the end of the day, coming off even 0.025 (notice the decimal point) can be hellish for people (just check out benzobuddies...actually, don't, it'll freak you out). I'm actually not planning on wd at all. I don't think I developed the typical type of tolerance that causes dose escalation. My problem is that my system was shaken up by the cut and it just needs to settle down (which could take very long). Withdrawing was what caused the problem in the first place, not building a tolerance. If I have to wd, it would be 3 years of utter hell given that at this moment I'm still messed up on a high dose. The goal now is to find stability and then see how I respond from there. I think if I finally gained stability at 4.5, then found that in 3 months I needed more, then that would be an indication that I had developed tolerance. Moral of the story - if you're doing well on klonopin, only reduce with extreme caution and very very slowly (give it at least a month between cuts and try to make them between 10% or even 5%). As for the doc willing to give me 4.5 a day, the irony is that I was on 3.5 and she was like WTF get off the benzo! So she tried to taper me too fast. Then I lost my mind. Then 5 months later she accepted that I had HPPD (after Dr. A's note) and that I needed clon. Since then it's just been an attempt to get me back to stability, which hasn't worked at 3, 3.25, 3.5, 4 or 4.5. Upon the advice of a few, there's the suggestion that it might just take some time to reach homeostasis at 4 or 4.5 (i.e. that I'm high enough, I just need to re-adapt).

mgrade - I agree with you completely. At the top of the problem is the primary condition itself. Wouldn't we all wish that we didn't have HPPD in the first place. I could live the rest of my life with the visuals, no problem. The physical stuff, which I'm learning is a facet of the anxiety syndromes associates with HPPD, that's the thing that's gripped my life. Going back to your suggestion of seeing if I could get along without the high dose of benzo -- well that was what landed me in this place, i.e. trying to reduce from 3.5mg. I would note that in that situation, it's not even clear whether the result was due to HPPD or due to the inherent difficulty in reducing a benzo. Maybe a bit of both. Biggest regret is not going slow enough, but then again, I was forced into it. Sigh.

[cs1234]

yeah .5 doesn't really do much to me, but it's all my doc will give me. I don't take it everyday too cuz I dont wanna get addicted. Anyways, best of luck to you man. Everything will balance out soon enough.

[VisualDude]

I was advised to either keep upping the K, but also if I thought time was a factor, staying at the same dose for however long I thought was useful. More importantly, I was advised to throw additional medications into the mix such as gabapentin as well as SSRIs. Why? Because I should be treating the way I feel and not the hypothetical effects of benzo withdrawal

Medications are to make life functional. Ideally they are to cure but often disease/disorders can only be "managed". If taking 5mg Klonopin for your whole life makes life better ... then why not?

Dr A, no doubt, knows that virtually all meds have WD issues. But it seems that he is trying to get you to focus on whatever it takes to function ... not what could go wrong.

It is common for brain injury type problems to need adjustment of meds on a per need basis rather than a consistant blanket dose.

It is understandable that since you got messed up 8 months ago you want to stabilize before trying anything else. But, unless you are very unstable, trying additional meds may be a good idea. Just be careful what they are.

I use Gabapentin as a base med. It has some properties like Klonopin (cousins). It may help you. It may not. But it is one of the safer meds to work with. For a while I was on 1800mg/day. Now 300mg once in the morning.

Otherwise, sorry that the docs messed you up last year - they can be extremely frustrating

[mgrade]

I understand the sensitivity to chemicals when having HPPD and i understand the fact that nothing seems to help too. I realize also that some things kind of help but at the expense of accumulation of side effects. I can understand being sensitive to small changes in your meds .....but if you were to look at it a little differently it would be like being an alcoholic and going from a 30 pack to a 27.5 pack. You're still an alcoholic. Benzos are wonder drugs. And if they help you and the side effects do not bother you than there is no reason to stop. Nevertheless, if you find it necessary to ween, you cannot expect anything but anxiety. But don't bother with "normal" worry because w/d effects are out of your control, and make sure you make that apparent and conscious. In some ways, your dose of Klonopin is like being on the on-deck circle, warming up with a whiffle ball bat. While being on no benzos would be like being in the on-deck circle, warming up with 2 sledgehammers. Just a thought.

[rollingregret]

Visual, what you said just above is right. If i need 5mg the rest of my life, so be it. I have no problem with that. That's why when I was on 4mg for 3 years, I didn't think twice about it and I was actually able to lower the dose to 3.5 with little issue. The problem has been this new facet of the benzo - i.e., it not working after the cuts and subsequent updosing. That was my main concern, that I couldn't find a dose to get me back to the place I need to be the rest of my life. It has been a weird feeling since klonopin has worked perfectly until trying to reduce it. It introduced me to the concept of benzo wd, which I didn't even really know much about after 4+ years of use since I had such good results AND reprieve from HPPD.

Anyway, here's an update. I went up to 5mg on the 24th of July. By the next week, I felt muchhh better than I had in 9 months. As if I had reached the stability point. I wasn't getting any muscle tension, head fuckedupness, dizziness. It all kind of cleared, but not in a flash, sort of gradually. Then last Friday I was like, man, this is great, I finally feel like going out with friends, socializing, not obsessing. Then I did the STUPIDEST fucking thing I could do. I had a few beers when out with some friends who I hadn't seen in ages.

why?

1) I honestly felt like I had stabilized. No other dose had made me feel so different and "back"

2) It had been 9 months since last drinking and I'm just going to be honest, it SUCKS not being able to drink. It has had a major effect on my lifestyle. Friends were literally counting down til the day I could. Anyway, just to say that I had been waiting a lonnnng time to stabilize so that I could enjoy some brews with my friends. It was more of an impulse decision and I never would have if I wasn't feeling great.

3) I'm a total f'ing moron (biggest reason)

Anyway, it's 8 days later and since day 3 I've had a rebound of symptoms as is customary when trying to stabilize. I think 1998 has warned people a million times not to drink any alcohol until stable, but that's the mistake I made. Those 2 weeks of perceived stability after almost a year of feeling like crap fooled me into thinking I could get away with it because I had achieved stability (of course you need to wait at least 2 months until considering it). Anyway, the dizziness is back, head buzz and other symptoms. They're mild, but present, so a huge failure in my grand plan to recover and find a stable dose. I'm hoping that it's just a flare up and temporary, but I've read that people can be screwed permanently by this kind of indiscretion. Only time will tell. I feel so depressed (is it a symptoms or a natural reaction?) and angry at myself because I have only myself to blame. In the long run though, there's the realization that maybe I'll never reach that point where I can have a casual drink the way I used to (remember alcohol never affected me during my 4+ years of positive benzo use before the cuts) and that's going to be brutal. This past year of going out sometimes (usually tried to not even go out) and being faced with people getting shitfaced or even enjoying wine or scotch, it's been tough. It's in no way an alcoholism thing, that I'm sure of, merely a quality of life thing. Anybody else make this stupid mistake when trying to stabilize? Most of the posts I read are from people who have been benzo free, have gone through wd and now when they drink it brings it back. I'm in a different boat I guess since I've actually been upping my dose to stabilize.

Back to the original issue, Visual - when you said that Dr. A is trying to get me to give myself the best treatment, I think that's totally a valid point. The thing that's actually worrisome is that he flat out denied the existence of benzodiazepine withdrawal. He said there is no evidence for it and you can pull someone off and put them back on with no effects. People say he's human and all that, but if Einstein couldn't solve the root of 4, I think we'd all be questioning this whole relativity thing. He of all people should know of the severity of the wd syndrome, let alone the fact it occurs at all even for brief periods when tapering (hence the point of tapering). That's the only thing that makes me wonder if throwing everything but the kitchen sink at my problem is good medical advice. The fact that you, 98 and others have had positive results with Gabapentin does allow me to consider it. For now though, I think the goal is trying to rid myself of this alcohol-induced return (albeit I was only feeling good for 2 weeks!) of symptoms. Lesson learned the very hard way.

[miketusa]

Dude the drinking thing, trust me I know. Im supposed to be starting college soon. I feel so stupid when I think about. Out of all the vices in life, I would choose alcohol. My entire family just loves the stuff. Not in an alcoholic way, but its always been a part of how we bring each other together. My friends drink, and everyone now and then I have a few. But one night I had a few too many, and now I have starbursting. Were it not for that night, Im sure id be cured by now. Its the worst.I just wanna few beers with my friends. Beer makes me happy. Life just isn't the same without a few days a week where I can hang back and have a good conversation and a few New Castles.

[rollingregret]

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[miketusa]

No withdrawlish anything. I had noticed symptoms, I believe after getting extremely highof marijuana. Prior to that, I took some questionable ecstacy on New Years and tripped. Anyways, symptoms sneaked up on me, and I found drinking made them much, much worse. I took a few too many shots one night and literally the following night I had starbursting. At first when I drank it increased my snow tremendously, I also felt really "out of it" just really detached. That sort of subsided after any real mental symptoms went away. Everything now is purely visual, which is really annoying, its like im in some twilight zone between healed and not healed. Somethings like nictoine, increases my anxiety which I find odd. Other than that no real problems, which im sure some would welcome happily. No benzos, just a few supplements. It has been a few months now since that incident, I still have my fingers crossed that this will go away. Im approacing 6 or 7 months I believe, and hope of a full recovery is dwindling.

[a_postal]

Guys, be very careful with gabapentin, i used it only for 4 times, each time i"ve noticed almost total loss of visual disturbnaces, which lasted for 2-3 days, but after all, my visuals became a great deal stronger. No other drugs except klono and occasional buzz were used at that time, so that i guess it was the trigger for worsening of symptomps, mental and body load as well =/ Had to increase klono significantly, i"m not even capable of reading texts without it..

Visual, what is your gabapentin dosage and how long do you on it?

[rollingregret]

Interesting, a_postal, this is why I wonder about adding more meds to my script. What's your klon dosage now?

The one thing about your situation that I think might be different for me if I used it (and is for those who do currently) is that it's meant to be taken every day, not sporadically with the effects lasting a few days after a dose. I wonder if what you experienced was some sort of GABA-type withdrawal every time you took the gapapentin and then stopped. That said, thanks for the warning, cuz I would hate to add something that has a large dependency issue in addition to my already faltering klon/messed up receptors.

[1998]

I've had so many meds give me negative side effects, after a while you just come down to baseline and cross that one off your list.

The highly addicting meds BenzoS, Opiates are the one's that really mess with you FOREVER, so you better know what you're getting into. Later all!

How's your klono doing rollingregret????

PS I just got this Top of the line phone. I don't even need a computer anymore lol