On 9/22/2019 at 12:01 PM, Guest said:

What if I had a research protocol in hand that specifically mentions how HPPD could be reversible but wasn’t able to circulate it, fundraise for it without permission from the physician scientists who drafted it?

You can’t imagine how hopeful and at the same time how powerless I feel....

That awesome bro!

Edit: Just realized this is a thread bump lol

God damn 6 year bump. Slightly curious what the "other plants" were, but as far as ayahuasca, they are morons IMO. These shamans are most likely unknowledgeable, but theres a 1% chance of one being a master, then he would know. 

On 6/1/2021 at 1:03 PM, SomebodySomewhere said:

*Sighs*

This is actually really interesting. Do you have any links to back this up? I'm not contradicting you, after all the posts I've read I'm inclined to agree, just curious if you have any research articles I can read that touch on this?

No, not particularly, but its not to far fetched. I've mainly derived the idea of the possibility of the thing mainly from observing the reports and symptoms that people have mentioned with HPPD, and also common symptoms of synonymous conditions of the sort. 

2 hours ago, Onemorestep said:

unfortunately i dont think you will be able to know whether this was covid or the psuedo. I mean people get covid and complain of a lot of the same things ppl with hppd do.

No offense but I scarcely doubt a virus similar to the flu would cause this.

@Stve It sounds like maybe you might have something going on aside with HPPD, possibly. I think something may be causing the increase in symptoms that may not necessarily be from the sudafed specifically, hard to say though.

On 6/11/2021 at 9:08 AM, rlopes said:

Do you take Coq10 yourself? Have you notice any changes on your symptoms?

I do not, I did take it a couple times, but the routine didn't last more than a few days. I fell more energy though. But as for HPPD I can't say anything.

17 hours ago, dayum_son said:

I took CoQ10 for a few months but no effect.

The only things that helped me get better are good sleep, good food and good experiences in life. Meet new people, or just do anything that distracts you from Hppd.

What dose?

On 4/16/2018 at 3:37 PM, Fawkinchit said:

I couldn't see it having any long term negative effect, if anything the only potential I see is it having a stimulant effect that might exasperate your symptoms.

I would like to correct my statement here, that CoQ10 is an amazing supplement for the mitochondria, and if you read in my thread on the subject I theorize the main issue here is a form of mitochondrial dysfunction. CoQ10 accelerates electron chain transfer and makes it very efficient in the mitochondria, which at proper dosage and duration of time can definitely ameliorate mitochondrial dysfunction.

Personally I feel Niacin is way better at this and less expensive, but the two can even be combo'd. And you could even add antioxidants Rutin, and Resveratrol, which will help as well. It can take months to alleviate mitochondrial dysfunction, but in most conditions its worth the wait.

Also Vitamin D is a good supplement as well and I have seen it do amazing things in calcium metabolism and inflammation. So it could be good as well. I would assume in the persons report that was provided, that it was more so the CoQ10 that was of assistance to him.

16 hours ago, Stve said:

It’s just strange because I have t felt this bad since I first got the condition. I felt just like everyone else eventually. After the Sudafed m I just started getting so scared. Maybe i just need to work myself through this. I had covid at the same time, and my tachycardia kept my heart in the 100s more or less for about a month. 
 

it’s annoying because for some reason I feel like I can’t get joy out of my usual activities, which is what I usually did to relax. To tell you the truth before this I barely ever thought about it in years.
 

In regards to the ocd, runs in my family.

I really do feel like if I could actually relax everything would die down. But it’s hard when I can find joy in distractions.

This is all new to me, since up until recently I felt no more anxiety than before the molly . 

to tell the truth. I just want to get back to how I was then so I can resume school

 

 

Are you on any other medications? Have there been any other changes in your life or medical treatment? Did you get vaccinated?(not recommending it by the way). Heart rate in the 100s is quite high if that's sedentary readings, mine was only that high for a few weeks after getting the condition. Do you have any other medical conditions? What's your diet like? Do you have any palpitations/skipped heart beats?

10 hours ago, Stve said:

Thanks, do you think it’s likely if I can get myself in a good headspace for a few weeks I can get back to baseline?

An interesting tidbit, I developed ocd as a coping mech for my symptoms. Since this accident my ocd has manifested in different ways. Mostly intrusive thoughts of dread. Come to think of it j have not actually “relaxed” since then. This may be why symptoms seem worse. Just a thought.

thanks for you help. I’m a bit more hopeful now. 

Hopefully I can get back to school next fall.

 

In a few weeks is possible, but it could take longer, the only reason I say that is the duration since you last took sudafed.

Interestingly enough the OCD may even be a manifestation of the HPPD. HPPD appears to be somewhat similar in fashion with other mental disorders and derangements. Some HPPD patients suffer from what I would call pseudo schizophrenic related issues like paranoia, it even appears to blunt social behaviors as well, a lot of symptoms that though mild, still appear, and seem to be relatively unnoticed by usual HPPD patients. It is very difficult to relax with HPPD, for sure, sometimes the anxiety that is HPPD driven, is quite overwhelming. Some people may think the anxiety is driven by the visuals, etc, however it appears to be a symptom direct from HPPD itself. Definitely though negative thoughts can accelerate other symptoms, not that they are the cause, but rather can invoke bodily survival reactions, which definitely can make symptoms worse, then sufferers can soon find themselves in a cascading spiral of anxiety, fear, and dread as you put it. 

24 minutes ago, Stve said:

Man I just hope j go back to normal. Years of hard work. I’m so worried that the Sudafed broke my neurons or something. 

Nah, pseudoephedrine may exasperate the symptoms of HPPD, but it cant cause them, so you're safe there. HPPD is really sensitive though. Hang in there and give it time, and I'm sure you'll return to baseline, just give it time man. Its hard though I understand, even when my HPPD gets bad for a day its overwhelming, we definitely understand.

12 minutes ago, Stve said:

Also I’m not sure this is relevant. I took the Sudafed, had a very bad night but than j felt fine. Next day I woke up, drank some green tea I think, than got uncontrollable tremors and tachycardia. Went to the ER twice for that. Do you think it is possible the stress of all this just sent me overboard?

Definitely, its possible. Anxiety has really fine lines, I'm not saying its mental, cause I've heard that and I know HPPD isn't mental, but our thoughts can exasperate HPPD, its true. People still dont understand that its unnatural anxiety. Two months is longer than I would expect for returning to baselines. Are you still drinking the green tea everyday? Have you changed anything in your normal routine?

Honestly your doctor is probably a dipshit, but I will agree its unlikely that sudafed has had this dramatic and long term of and effect. Its not impossible, just, improbable.

Technically Sudafed is nothing like MDMA, its active ingredient is pseudoephedrine, and its chemically similar to ephedrine I suppose. What I would personally guess is you have jarred your neurons so to speak, so they will probably be on high alert for a while, but I would assume its more than likely with a little time they will calm back down again. Also quit doing fucking drugs, jesus christ what is wrong with people that get HPPD. Its nature literally screaming in your face "dont do drugs"

Calming down is the best way to start the process, maybe try some chamomile tea to help relax. I'd say in a couple weeks should be fine. When did you last take sudafed?

So after more reading today, the difference may lie in the metabolites of hallucinogens, and their interactions with the brain. Where as it can be found that some chemicals in vivo are neurotoxic, but in vitro not so much the case, however if neuronal cultures are grown with liver cell culture, that chemical then becomes neurotoxic in vitro. So essentially a study needs to be done with a mix of rat embryo neuronal cultures combined with rat liver cell cultures, and then dosed with hallucinogens, and then an assessment done to gather cell counts of neurons to establish and evidence of neurotoxicity. It would be feasible to be done at home, however, likely expensive, and there may be restrictions on obtaining cell cultures and embryonic neurons obviously have to be taken from the fetuses of a dead rat mother.

Anyways this is a study that critically needs to be done to distinguish between seemingly contrasting results of in vivo vs in vitro neurotoxicity.

Also for anyone not aware

In vivo = Living organism

In vitro(Latin for "Within the glass) = Petri dish cell cultures

I'm wondering if it might even be possible to replicate the labelled ligand study, its really a novel idea for understanding neuronal changes.

https://www.labome.com/method/Receptor-Ligand-Binding-Assays.html

I'm also wondering if hallucinogens cause a marked vasoconstrictive effect leading to neuronal loss, which would explain why neurons in vitro survive fine, and why outcomes in vivo differ in said studies. As this study below shows that not only cause 5htp activation cause vasoconstriction in higher doses, but it also appears to be an effect specific to 5-ht2a receptors, which if I remember correct are the specific ones for hallucinogens.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12122496/

Its likely improbably however, since from what I am reading, the vasoconstrictive effects of 5ht2a receptors are relatively low.

So there is evidence for possibility of neurotoxicity in vivo for LSD, and likely to be the same for any other hallucinogen. However I have seen conflicting studies of neurotoxicity that I posted in my previous thread. So I'm not entirely sure what is going on here. I was going to contact the physician that did the study, Gaylord Ellison, unfortunately he passed away in 2003 though.

basically in this study there is a long term decrease in labeled ligand binding, which as far as I understand could indicate neuronal loss. However as far as I do understand I also think there are other possibilities for the reason. Its to be noted as well that its most evident in limbic regions of the brain, which deal a lot with emotions etc. 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2780790/

Abstract

I don't think that I had any actual change in appearance immediately from HPPD, although I did have a lot of hair falling out in the shower immediately after from the stress of my brain being entirely fucked, but as far as appearance nothing change. I did however notice, or in retrospect, do notice that I had an increase of insecurity, it was strange, as though when i looked in the mirror I would only see flaws, pre HPPD I was pretty confident about how I looked. After HPPD it took me a long time to build confidence, it was really hard too. I think there are definitely social impacts of HPPD for sure, its generally the case with most mental disorders. Anyways what I am saying is I think maybe you might be perceiving yourself differently than you used to, even though you actually look the same. If that makes sense.

On 5/15/2021 at 6:02 AM, Hall89 said:

It seems like all hallucinogens and psychedelics can cause it.

"A vast list of psychoactive substances has been identified and linked with the development of this condition, including Magic Mushrooms (psilocybin) [21] and muscimol (Amanita muscaria (L.) Lam.) [22]; San Pedro cactus and Peyote (mescaline) [16,23]; ketamine [24]; dextromethorphan [25]; MDMA and MDA [26]; and cannabis and synthetic cannabinoids [27,28,29,30,31,32,33]. This condition has also been associated with the consumption of Ayahuasca, Datura stramonium L., Salvia divinorum Epling & Játiva, and Tabernanthe iboga (L.) Nutt., which contains ibogaine [17,18]. It is, therefore, clear that HPPD is not strictly associated with psychedelic consumption, but a number of hallucinogen-inducing substances may be correlated with its arising.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5870365/"

 

 

Crazy.

2 hours ago, SomebodySomewhere said:

Yes, you can get HPPD from Mescaline. Plenty of people have developed HPPD from using phenethylamines, 2C-B being a classic example.

Lol, it appears I was quoted in the original post, hopefully I didn't offend. 

Most of the members here are non drug users and prefer to avoid drugs altogether, so you may get better reception on reddit forums for what it seems like you're trying to find out. However, on a purely research basis it is something to question if it has no causative effects for HPPD, as it would be somewhat contradictory to what anyone would expect. 

On 6/24/2012 at 12:34 PM, 2muchmandy said:

Hope1 kicked off quite rightly i think a fairly millitant approach. The fact most neurologists and 99% of those in medicine have no clue about hppd yet the world has so many drug users, young ones at that is quite frankly horrifying.

I decided I didnt wanna sit with my thumb in my ass either, i post alot on here and try helps people but i thought i wanna join hope in reaching out to some people

Today i got a reply from a gentleman telling me i was wasting my time in offering a grant as billions have been spent in researching brain disorders, i totally disagree because giving up hope that conditions can be cured is just wrong.

He did however wish me the best of luck and suggested perhaps trying to assemble a task force of scientists/neurologists to try and get to the bottom of this. This would be something Dr. Abraham and David would probably need to asist us as their knowledge of who is who in the medicine community and who would be able to help is really the most accurate we have.

What are peoples thoughts on this? I dont know if david actually has an account or posts on here.

Interestingly enough the research that has already been done on other disorders could technically be used synonymously with HPPD.  

11 hours ago, NRFAdmin said:

We managed to secure $50,000 from the individual behind the HPPD foundation and had the money donated to support Dr. Harry McConell's work. The  recruitment phase for the research should start soon. People interested in participating can do so by sending their information, which will be held confidential here: studyrecruitment@neurogroup.org. 

This is our time to collectively make a difference in putting HPPD front and center with the intent of one day finding the root cause of this condition and a cure.

Thats awesome, at the time do you or they have the study summary or objective? Essentially an outline of the idea of what they are looking for? Or what specifically they will be studying?

Edit: Nvm found your other post.

Never will I understand why so many people want to do hallucinogens after getting HPPD.

On 4/19/2021 at 6:54 PM, Onemorestep said:

 

Oh for sure. The article on hallucinogens and autoimmune is simply to further illustrate, after the pig study, that hallucinogens can have an effect on our immune functioning in a permanent way. And immune system dysfunction in the cns  —> increased interleukins—>mitochondrial, astrocyte, microglial ros crazy time party. I am in no way am I suggesting that one should take them if you have hppd hahaha. I didn’t think I needed to point that out but for anyone who sees that article— please do not infer that a) hppd is an autoimmune condition—that, like everything else on this website, is theoretical or b) that taking more will alleviate your symptoms. 

I've looked through the article some, they do appear to be promoting the use of psychedelics, granted in restricted doses I would assume, either way I still dont agree with their use, as some people who have microdosed even got HPPD. However, as you mentioned there is some interesting information in there for sure, and the actions and effects of some of these compounds which helps to give further insight in to their effects, and some appear to have some beneficial effects, granted though it needs to be further researched what the mechansims are for HPPD before they continue. I saw some parts where they mentioned reactive oxygen species and glutamate excitotoxicity, and I cant quite tell whether they are saying it is beneficial in preventing these or if it causes these, so I will have to do some more reading.

On 4/19/2021 at 6:54 PM, Onemorestep said:

 

Oh for sure. The article on hallucinogens and autoimmune is simply to further illustrate, after the pig study, that hallucinogens can have an effect on our immune functioning in a permanent way. And immune system dysfunction in the cns  —> increased interleukins—>mitochondrial, astrocyte, microglial ros crazy time party. I am in no way am I suggesting that one should take them if you have hppd hahaha. I didn’t think I needed to point that out but for anyone who sees that article— please do not infer that a) hppd is an autoimmune condition—that, like everything else on this website, is theoretical or b) that taking more will alleviate your symptoms. 

Oh my bad, I misunderstood, I'll definitely have to check out the article, and I apologize, Ive been really limited for time lately. Thanks for posting it!

Thats even more interesting because both immune and mitochondrial dysfunction are quite often linked. I've actually reversed a condition for someone that is technically classified as an immune disorder, and manifests as skin rashes, they no long have it though, and it took about 6 months to reverse. So could be the same case with this, and neuronal inflammation is a real thing.

On 3/28/2021 at 10:33 AM, whyohwhy said:

So do you feel like this is an answer to a cure? I've been thinking of trying niacin as a supplement but are there any potential risks or side effects of taking high doses? 

Its very possible, the evidence is surmounting that this is the most probably cause for our condition, and schizophrenia as well. 

On 4/2/2021 at 5:07 PM, Onemorestep said:

Metformin inhibits mitochondrial ROS. Wanted to throw that in here before I forgot.

This is true, however it does this through reducing/inhibiting mitochondrial oxidative phosphorylation, a really important pathway, I personally don't believe its even a decent treatment for type II diabetes, as other alternatives suppress glucose more efficiently, and more safely. Metformin is also the child of Phenformin, a banned drug for high risk of lactic acidosis that led to 50% mortality rates in people to developed it while on the drug.

On 4/2/2021 at 8:28 PM, Onemorestep said:

You know interestingly enough there is mounting evidence that epilepsy, schizophrenia, migraines are all immune system related. It really does make sense that hppd could be as well.

 

in fact, I think neural immune system issues can account for everything you mentioned in terms of mitochondria, astrocytes, etc. 

 

You may find this interesting:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.psypost.org/2021/01/psilocybin-produces-an-immunology-related-genetic-response-in-the-prefrontal-cortex-of-pig-brains-59115/amp

 

might be worth looking into. 
 

you also might find this interesting, as it lines up with your thinking. Baclofen helps amelioriate a large chunk of my cognitive dysfunctions. It did not return my long term memory to exactly what it was, but I could retain information again about facts well. When I began it, I had an INSATIABLE URGE TO EAT EGGS. In fact all I ate for three weeks was eggs. Folates and choline I guess hehe... anyway, I ran across this recently.  Baclofen eventually had a deleterious effect on my ability to feel pleasure (complete anhedonia lasting 3 years after reaching 100mg per day after 9 months of use... god it made me high too hehe) but I suspect this was a side effect and possibly just from overuse. 
 

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyt.2018.00506/full

Yes! There is a lot of evidence that these conditions have a brother sister relationship.

On 4/3/2021 at 7:54 AM, Hall89 said:

Interesting! If i wasn't on Lamatrogine i would have tried the niacide, but if i try it and get a rash i won't be able to know if it's because of the Lamatrogine or niacid.

The rash from niacin is likely to be different from lamotrigine. Niacin rash isn't particularly a rash, but in not entirely familiar with lamo side effects. 

On 4/3/2021 at 4:29 PM, Onemorestep said:

Psychedelics as a novel approach to treating autoimmune conditions

 

Definitely worth a read. Glad science is finally getting off it’s ass.... lots of interesting stuff in here that can tie to your thoughts Fawk

 

 

 

 

I truly feel that going back to compounds that brought us here, will do just that, bring us here. I do not believe cyanide to cure cyanide poisoning, thus its most inconceivable that hallucinogens cure HPPD.

On 4/4/2021 at 1:01 AM, Onemorestep said:

I wonder if there’s a way to quickly get more vitamins in. (Sulbutiamine, magnesium threonate.?)

Your body will absorb them plenty fine, all you have to do is make sure you are getting the right ones every day. 

On 4/12/2021 at 1:18 PM, Derealized said:

Hey, thanks for your Research. I’m thinking about trying it out by next month, but not quite sure how to dose all those vitamins. Should the vitamin C and D intake be more then what the body usual needs? I could do that with just fruits and vegs I guess, but about the B3 and magnesium I’m not quite sure, since I’m vegan I think my B3 might me quite now, not really finding anything online about how to supplement it so the body can use it. And recommendations for the dosing of what you are recommending? 
 

thanks, 

Anna 

Your welcome! And thank you it has been years of work. Fruits and vegetables will always have a larger impact on health than supplements, however I do believe supplements are required for some conditions. Vitamin C should be in the range of 500mg to 1gram, but up to 27 grams is safe and has been done before, but I don't personally recommend it, Linus Pauling did take that much though. Vitamin E(not D) just however many IUs are in a capsule once a day is sufficient IMO. The niacin should be around 500mg or more a day IMO. 

On 4/13/2021 at 8:12 AM, Hindy112 said:

can you do like a list of everything i need to take 

Its in the original post. Vitamin C, Vitamin E, and Niacin.

I am working more research revolving around mtDNA damage and ways to accelerate repair, as I believe this is the most crucial aspect of the condition, and has to be done precisely, I will update everyone when I have more information on the matter. I think that Niacin is amazing and one of the more critical points for DNA repair, but there are other things necessary, and beneficial. The proper cure for this condition could be very time consuming as well, it could take months, even a year. 

On 4/18/2021 at 10:23 AM, Advocacy said:

I hope you are right! I started lamotrigine with the combination of fluoxetine 40mg a day and I seem somewhat happier but my visuals are getting worse. I will continue to increase my dose until it’s not bearable. If this treatment doesn’t work I will be trying what you have recommended! Thanks!

Great! Good luck.

Sorry to everyone for the delayed responses, I have had a lot going on and always try to find time to make my way back here. Thanks for all the responses!

I would like to add also however, that despite current findings in the field of hallucinogens and no evidence of neuronal loss, there is still a possibility for neuronal loss in specific people that may be driven particularly by people having certain different metabolic profiles, and/or genetic metabolic mutations that predispose the person to neuronal loss under certain conditions. Its been well found out decades ago that people have certain metabolic inconsistences with the norm of others. Some inconsistencies in metabolic profiles are minor, other are more exaugurated. So a more precise test to disclose possibilities of neuronal loss would be to take neurons specifically from HPPD patients(no idea how you would do that), and then dose them with LSD or other hallucinogens that test negative for neurotoxicity and observe is the result is still the same.

Basically there is a possibility that some humans may be susceptible to neuronal loss under the exposure to hallucinogens, where the relative public is immune in a sense.