Fawkinchit

9 hours ago, Robert Goggins said:

Thanks for the 7 year bump lol. I've been browsing thru this site recently and I just noticed the magnesium post. I once tried this with magnesium lotion. It was actually created for cramps, muscle spasms and that sort of thing. However I emailed a man named Dr Shealy and told him about my condition (HPPD of course) and he instructed me to try rubbing it on the bottom of my feet as well as take B vitamins and D3 50,000 units daily. I must admit that it brought some pretty interesting results while I was using this combination of things but the effects only lasted if I kept using them. A long shot for a real cure I'm afraid.

How long did you take the vitamin d for?

St. Johns Wort is clearly something to be avoided in HPPD, as SSRIs are known to exasperate symptoms. Rabdosia has almost no information available as far as modern studies are concerned. Is there any information that you have found that leads you to believe it may be beneficial?

On 7/1/2015 at 12:38 PM, LethargicAcid said:

dont feel like spending 30 minutes to watch it. if anyone wants to sum up some main points ide love it. plz

Wants a cure, doesnt have 30 minutes... lol

Edit: God damn 7 year bump what the hell.

Not everyone has had the best experiences with it, and probably because it simply just doesn't cure the condition. I see a lot of HPPD sufferers that cant tolerate any of these neurotransmitter modulating drugs. Granted though some have seen some benefit. Which will primarily be due to its ability to lessen neurotransmitters, so it likely helps to quiet some of the cortical disinhibition seen in HPPD, however its mechanism of action is unknown, and it(like most other pharmaceuticals) does not appear to treat the underlying cause of this condition.

On 9/6/2021 at 5:29 PM, MichaelHPPD20years said:

I've had HPPD for 20 years but for the first 10 years it seemed like every week or perhaps every month my condition would get just a little bit worse, I always thought my brain was slowly dying or something, never could explain it. Lately I feel absolutely wonderful and have been making improvements (with help) but no one seems to believe me...

Modern medicine has termed most electrical devices in the field of medicine as "Quackery", whenever medical science does this the sheep move as though they were a religious cult. So now days everything thinks these devices are more for gimmicks. However funny people think they may be, there are a few that actually tend to show outstanding results worthy of further investigation. Mass population though, their minds are too lazy for real reading and thoughtful acknowledgement.

I would like to bump this thread, has anyone else gotten hppd from mescaline? This is a very interesting topic, if more people could answer please.

On 8/20/2021 at 3:21 AM, thelostreceptor said:

Neuronal/axonal damage is tied with the forming of glial scars that inhibit regeneration of tissue. Glial scars can be seen as a persistent deficit, and they create a non-permissive barrier that prevents axons growing through the area and re-connecting with targets. Unlike regular scar tissue, a glial scar does not really resolve and likely persists over one's lifetime.

Glial scars have been known for long time as a major roadblock to regeneration and functional recovery, and there are many companies trying to solve this problem. There's loads of literature available, I found these wiki pages to be a great introduction:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glial_scar
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroregeneration

There's a chance that HPPD involves injury and glial scarring, which is not necessarily detectable by MRI. It doesn't explain the symptoms, which, imo would likely involve changes in GABAergic transmittion/inhibitory vision-related circuits (neuronal/axonal loss?), which alters the homeostatic excitation/inhibitory balance (hyperexcitability).

Furthermore, there are anecdotal reports of people who have a TBI developed visual snow as a symptom. TBI can as well induce epilepsy and migraine symptoms.

https://bioelecmed.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s42234-019-0032-0
Homeostatic activity regulation as a mechanism underlying the effect of brain stimulation

This could also explain why benzo's, Ashwagandha and other GABA modulators (enhancing inhibition) may relief HPPD symptoms, as well as anticonsulvants & AMPA/NMDA modulators (reducing excitation).

Hey good morning and thanks for posting! Yes, what you're saying essentially is that HPPD could be caused by neuronal loss, this is accurate, and glial scar formation does always follow neuronal loss. It should be noted that neuronal damage with out loss of the neuron however does not typically result in glial scar formation. In one of my older threads I do cover some of the interesting facts around glial scar formation. One of those points to be noted is that even though it is believed to be a "road block" for regeneration, there is actually no evidence of that, and it could actually be the initial steps in building a framework for regeneration(This may be doubted by what's been said on chondroitinase, but I will cover that also). Glial scar should be understood as well as to not be confused with normal scarring, there are no fibroblasts within the central nervous system, and so no fibrous elements are produced, which is a great thing. Glial scar tissue is made up simply of astrocytes, and I believe oligodendrocytes, which are cells mainly there for supporting neurons.

As for chondroitinase it sounds great in the way they title everything, like "functional recovery", and it can be considered improvement technically, because the animals do show improvement. However looking at the details of the studies it should be noted what they say is the cause of the improvement. I'll quote the studies.

"These include promoting regeneration of injured axons, plasticity of uninjured pathways and neuroprotection of injured projection neurons."

"promoted regeneration of both ascending sensory projections and descending corticospinal tract axons."

So it should be correctly understood that they are removing components of the glial scarring, and it does promote healing, however, and most unfortunately, its not neurogenesis, which is primary component you will want in the case of neuronal loss. It does allow for new connections, axons, etc. It should be noted as well that these studies are in spinal cord injuries which are far less complex than brain injury.

So that should be the main take away here. If HPPD is neuronal loss, then neurogenesis is a key component for treatment, also if that is the case, there will be glial scarring. However glial scarring may not be the block for neurogenesis, and in my opinion its proven that it is not by these studies, as removing the network shows no sign of neurogenesis. This would lead me closer to believe that its a framework for neurogenesis.

The brain stimulation therapy study is interesting though and they do bring to light some interesting questions, and shows that there may be more underlying factors to these conditions than just neuronal loss. I do believe that if HPPD is associated with neuronal loss that large scale recovery can still be possible with amending these underlying issues aside neuronal loss. A lot of those issues are what I mention in this thread, mitochondrial dysfunction being the main one, axonal damage secondly, and third there could be microvascular dysfunction as well, which I am working on right now, and already have something people can try, I will make a post on it in a couple weeks probably.

14 minutes ago, badhalfsack said:

Thank you for the comment, I really appreciate it. About the weed, the thing that made me use it. It was the fact that I was around legalized weed for the first time and I wanted to know how different it was. I haven't used any other drug besides alcohol and nicotine since I got the hppd. 

Now about the Vitamin b3, I am really engaged to try all the alternatives treatments besides meds. That's also one of the reasons I was sharing my experience, all we have to fight this disfunction directly is people's statements and some researches, no big pharmaceutical company by our side, I guess we are not profitable ahha. 

I will really give it a try.

So one more doubt still remains, do you have an explanation for why do people with hppd have wild dreams while on antibiotics and what about the whole plot of the gut on the serotonin production/caption? 

Nice, you're obviously pretty intelligent. I apologize I may have misunderstood a couple things you've said regarding current drug use.

We are definitely not profitable lmao.

As far as antibiotics and dreams I do not currently have any information on, its the first I have heard it for HPPD sufferers. I haven't done very extensive research on antibiotics either to know how they may potentially interact with the nervous system as well. I do know there are quite a lot of compounds(especially herbs) that stimulate dreams though, so its not too unheard of imo, as to the direct correlation I am unsure of.

It is really interesting that the majority of serotonin is actually produced by the gut, no doubt, and there are a LOT of neurons there, however, a simple study of anatomical injury and loss simply and easily demonstrates that brain trauma vs intestinal trauma supersedes neuro cognitive deficits easily, and there are predominately zero to no cognitive deficits lost in intestinal damage. Unless you have found studies I am unaware of.

Welcome by the way. Glad to have you here. 

No, and stop doing drugs. They do in fact cause significant neuronal damage, and most likely neuronal loss, in my thread the cause of HPPD and possible treatments, I talk about this, and why only some people get HPPD, its all relatively simple. Please stop shitting on your brain and please spread the word. Thank you!

On 7/22/2021 at 2:36 PM, Lucas said:

4 years and half in and things get better with time, first two years were really hard for me too. 

Really try to be sober man I was being reckless with drugs and alcohol and it definitely got on the way of my recovery.

 

 

This, also the study that I posted in my thread, The cause of HPPD, explains that axonal damage initiated by 5ht2a receptor overstimulation lasts up to two years. There may be quite a lot of way to speed this up, but its technically all experimental at that point. In my thread I recommend Niacin.

This study interestingly enough shows that drugs will have far greater effects on brains that are of a more susceptible nature. Schizophrenic patients have psychotic reactions to Ketamine. It should be noted as well that Ketamine is known to cause HPPD, and also acts on 5ht2a receptors.

https://stm.sciencemag.org/content/8/353/353ec134

Also interesting at the end of this article it almost seems as though they are implying that ketamine is used to induce schizophrenia in rat models.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27847437/

7 hours ago, whyohwhy said:

what other options are out there that could be beneficial other than niacin? 

Also, can I just ask coming from somebody who skimmed over the article (so forgive my ignorance) if it is referring to niacin (nicotinamide) leading to neurological deficits in low concentrations and neurotoxicity in high concentrations of it? "A key factor is the bioavailability of nicotinamide, with low concentrations leading to neurological deficits and dementia and high levels potentially causing neurotoxicity" (taken from the abstract of article https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5966847/) To me, I interpreted this as saying to avoid taking high concentrations of niacin cause it can be neurotoxic but can you just clarify for me what it means?

Also, you state that if HPPD is just "a cascade of neuronal loss, most specific to the cortical neurons, and interneurons [...] then everything is a shit fuck," what do you mean by "shit fuck?" like basically we're fucked when it comes to find a cure and treatment for this hell? 

As I have previously mentioned, this study is referencing nicotinamide, which is a form of Niacin, but not Niacin, Niacin is nicotinic acid, and does not have the same side affects as nicotinamide. The study if you read that you posted also says that safe doses for nicotinamide are 1500mg, and express a great deal of neuroprotective effects. The dose I recommend for Niacin is 1gram only.

By shit fuck, yes, I mean everything is fucked, and in my honest opinion, personally and without evidence of it I'm assuming HPPD sufferers are sadly in fact facing higher end levels of neuronal loss. Eventually I will get around as to why neurogenesis most likely wont be functional, I went over this years ago when I just assumed that HPPD was neuronal loss, but I never had evidence for it. Anyways I still don't know for sure how much neuronal loss is anticipated for this condition, but the underlying mechanisms and causative factors are clearly defined and easily observed at this point.

I do also need to study a little more profusely axonal damage and repair mechanisms and prognosis.

Edit: It appears as well that the studies that showed abnormal liver enzymes were with preparation of impure nicotinamide, and more recent studies with pure nicotinamide do not show signs of liver abnormalities. This is what I mean by studies have to be done with exact precision, even the smallest abnormality can bring up fallacious results and arguments. The other studies, the more recent ones actually showed that its hepatoprotective, beneficial for liver cells, and prevents toxic liver damage from carbon tetrachloride. Niacin do be dope.

https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007%2Fs001250051536.pdf

20 hours ago, Joej said:

So there will alway be symptoms just gets better?

With HPPD its really hard to say what the outcome will be, some people get to the point that they have relatively no noticeable symptoms, others do not, time really right now is the only way to tell. If you got it from a normal dose of wellbutrin though I would be amazing if you end up with permanent symptoms, I also will be amazed if your symptoms are even significant compared to typical cases of HPPD. How bad are your symptoms? Did you ever do drugs at all in the past, or while on wellbutrin? 

11 hours ago, Joej said:

Does it go away once u stop causeing im doing that now 

It may take some time but it definitely will improve for sure.

Thank you for reporting your case by the way im going to look farther in to wellbutrin on this.

Heres another study specifically for Niacin and its benefits for neuronal disorders more renowned than HPPD, but non the less give a good detail of its benefits for neurons.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6412771/

On 8/7/2021 at 8:23 PM, whyohwhy said:

I appreciate you taking the time to read what I had to say and I hope you weren't offended by me questioning what you had to say. Like I said, I am no expert whatsoever when it comes to this stuff. I just came across some contradictions and controversy regarding Abram Hoffer's work when looking up this niacin treatment so I wanted to hear what you had to say regarding it. Thank you for responding respectfully as well as including a ton of more research examples - as that's exactly how I wanted you to respond to me - by challenging what I had to say. I may ponder the decision a bit more on whether to take niacin and exactly how long I'm willing to take the stuff. But I'm going to keep the bottle I just bought of it as I did not throw the idea out the window just yet. 

Yah absolutely! Not offended at all. There probably are other options as well that could be beneficial for the condition, I just recommend niacin because from all the evidence I have seen it appears to me to be the best. Eventually when I have more time now that I know the underlying factors and etiology of the condition, I can better understand how to treat it, the study I just posted has some other good examples and explains why they are beneficial. So anyone can try them and see what works best!

My only true concern at this point is how significant neuronal loss is in these conditions, as I understand it, I doubt that no neurons are lost, but if only 10,000 are lost, not so bad, but its millions are lost, it could result in being the epitome of the condition, rather than axonal damage, it should be well noted as well that in these conditions, axonal damage appears to last up to two years according to the study, so that pretty serious, but with proper treatments the time frame could be significantly reduced.

So in my post above, everyone can see what the cause of HPPD is. And I will try posting some more information about treatment options when I have more time. But for right now here is an awesome study, covering niacin, its effects on neurons, and other valuable vitamins as well that are extremely beneficial in neuron recovery. So I hope this helps people. Please try and let other people know about this thread and try and spread word about this. Thanks to everyone that has supported these threads. Here is the study.

Also if anyone is wondering why some get HPPD, but some don't, that people with HPPD probably had at the time of hallucinogen use and underlying subclinical deficiency in certain antioxidants or vitamins in general, niacin deficiency even possibly being one of them(Pellagra), which would allow for higher susceptibility of mitochondrial dysfunction due to overstimulation and lead to higher amounts of axonal damage and neuronal loss. 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5966847/

6 hours ago, Joej said:

Did it go away or is it still there permeant 

Hello and welcome to the forums, you got HPPD from wellbutrin as well?

On 8/5/2021 at 3:41 AM, curiousstudent said:

OMG!! can you pleasee send me that link, it's exactly what im looking for

Thank you so much thats actually useful information

I posted it in my thread, The Cause of HPPD and Possible Treatments. You can find it there. There is definite evidence for neuronal damage, and possible neuronal loss.

On 8/7/2021 at 6:28 PM, whyohwhy said:

Hey @Fawkinchit, I'm not trying to tell you you are wrong or question your knowledge of things whatsoever; you clearly have done a lot of research when it comes to HPPD - however: 

You cite Abram Hoffer as the doctor who proposed this idea of Niacin to treat behavioral disorders, mental disorders, and many other conditions under this type of medicine called orthomolecular therapy (source Niacin: the Real Story by Abram Hoffer, Andrew W. Saul, Harold D. Foster). In general, the scientific and medical community criticizes and disregards this branch of medicine as legitimate. Specifically pertaining to niacin, mainstream medicine found that there isn't enough evidence to support the efficacy of large dose niacin in treating schizophrenia as well as the flaws in Abram's research. The follow up studies as well as multiple (separate) studies done in various countries could not confirm benefits from niacin to treat skitzophrenia. Suffice to say, there is controversy with Hoffer's work. 

To be honest, I bought Niacin today hoping to test it out but I can't help but feel that maybe I have gotten caught up in some kind of snake oil treatment...

Obviously, niacin is relatively safe (it is a b vitamin we get naturally from foods). However, 500-1000mg of it is a lot more than the average person consumes. 

I remember a user on here posted about some "miracle" supplement they found and I believe from this post another user on this forum actually tried this treatment. Now, I just want to get this across for everybody: It IS snake oil 100% No question - and dangerous too! I do not advise anyone to take it. I actually reported the original post from this guy and I am actually shocked it is still up on this site. Anyway, the user who posted about it and proposed for us to try this supplement called "Miracle Mineral Solution" was raving on about how they took it every day for about three weeks and how they were seeing marvelous results from it. It was a whole paragraph written extremely well that I am not going to lie, even I was drawn into it for a sec. But after doing research I realized that this "mineral water solution" or whatever it is called was actually invented by this religious nutcase named Jim Humble. This is a guy who goes against all forms of science to tell people in order for them to cure all their physical and mental ailments that all they need to do is drink bleach! I'm serious - MMS is literally water and bleach and has actually been banned in Canada and people who sell it online actually get arrested. Anyways, you are probably wondering why on earth am I rambling about something completely different that has nothing to do with niacin. The comparison I am trying to draw from is that... look, sometimes when people are so desperate for treatments especially when it comes to someone with HPPD where there is literally no drug treatment or cure for this torturous disease, it is easy to get wrapped up in bogus science or alternate forms of medicine that can actually kill you (case of "miracle mineral solution") rather than cure you. Now, in no way am I saying niacin is on the dangerous level of MMS, but what I am inquiring about is whether there is sound enough evidence that this is the right supplement for people like us to be taking for mental health or neurological problems? Niacin is not marketed as treating mental health disorders.... As a supplement, people take it for cholesterol so this is why I am questioning whether it is a good idea to take 1000mg of niacin even though on the bottle it is indicated you should take only up to 500 mg (1 tablet) max...

Again though, my intention of posting this was not at all meant to tell you off and/or say you are wrong... I would just like to see what you make of the contradictions surrounding orthomolecular medicine to which Abram Hoffer was a big proponent of. I am by no means a doctor or scientist - just your average joe gathering all this knowledge from sources on the internet. 

peace.

No its great, I appreciate you're doing some research, but if you're going to get to the bottom of things you might as well go all the way.

Straight to the point "Modern medical science said so" isn't proof of anything. I have literally half a billion examples of modern medicine being absolutely and atrociously wrong, I can prove it a multitude of various ways as well, but it continues to exhaust my time and energy trying to convince people that "because some guy with a degree told me so" isn't evidence of anything. Medicine knows everyone is just an average joe, like you said, and they know its a 4 trillion dollar market, that's a lot of money, with a lot of power. I have read thousands of studies, thoroughly, and understand them intimately on all sorts of levels, and I have found a multitude of false or inaccurate information. One of the articles mentions vitamin e and little effect, but I have other studies showing completely different. What people don't understand is with a hall a million dollars its easy to make a skewed study where they use too little of a dose, too little of a time period, or simply made poor observations, or studied one type of neuron, but not the same as the study showing results, then they claim fraud, quackery, snake oil and charge these men with ludicrous penalties fines fees jail time etc. There are hundreds of cases and doctors are even found dead of these ordeals quit often. Its 4 trillion dollars, try and tell me or anyone that 4 trillion dollars most men wouldn't kill for lol. But also its easily said as well that there are studies that show that Niacin does in fact work. I've also already mentioned the "liver damage" which is false as well, trumped up claims, and the studies for those were done with niacinamide not nicotinic acid(true niacin), so its not the same thing. Case in point "modern medicine said so" means nothing, show me real studies with proper doses and accurate time tables with viable patients, and then you have a solid argument. Hopefully all that makes sense.

I can cite a million things they have said is "quackery" that is laughable as well, quackery, or maybe just beyond their understanding, beyond their ability to observe proper and accurate effects. The lack of intellect in men isn't evidence of "quackery" of the most genius minds of all time. Even the ray wand by Nikola Tesla is "quackery", or is it just so far beyond our comprehension that we leave it to that. I can argue chemotherapy is quackery, it scarcely works and when it does its usually annihilated  the patients organs so profusely they die from multiple organ failure, it happens far more than they tell you. But treatments generate hundreds of billions of dollars.

As for studies being corrupt as well, which is scary in my opinion, and sometimes I think its just lax nature of men, but I know of one published article in the national library of medicine that states vividly that vitamin d3 causes calcifications of tissues and goes on and on and on about all the evidence, its pages long. But I checked every study he references and not a single one uses cholecalciferol(d3), they all use a metabolite of d3 that is typically highly regulated by the body and it does in fact cause calcifications, however taking large doses of d3 scarcely raises the metabolite levels at all, and there are quite a few studies that show that vitamin d3 does the opposite, and at high doses reduces arterial stiffness by 10% in just a few months, which is monumental. Now the man in question that wrote the initial and inaccurate  study, was he paid, is he desperate for work, is he simply lackadaisical, is he unfit for his position, is he afraid of reputational repercussions? These are all things to worry about and I see this in studies every so often. A lot have good accurate information, but you never hear about them in "Modern medical science"

As for niacin I have, and you can easily find, hundreds of studies if you look that show that not only is it completely safe, but it does ameliorate mitochondrial dysfunction. I posted some of the studies as well.

And if anyone doubts what I said, they need not question me or waste their time wondering, they can simply just look up what Linus Pauling says in his books on medicine, his quotes as well. Linus Pauling is the founder of orthomolecular medicine, he was a absolute genius, and won the noble prize twice for how great his works were. Ill listen to him over some group of mediocre money hungry doctors with a chip on their shoulder and an ego the size of Manhattan.

The cause of HPPD found here.

I also recently found a study as well that I will be posting soon that proves everything I am saying is accurate, the only hold back for now is that I'm trying to discern the degree of neuronal toxicity vs axonal damage as the doses in the study are quite high, and the neuronal death is very significant, its a very depressing study, but it gives all the answers as to how HPPD manifests, which is simply everything I have outlined, and the study says the same thing I have been talking about here in this thread. 5ht2a receptor agonists mediate neuronal stimulation to the point that they start overproducing free radicals, as abram hoffer says these radicals react with neurotransmitters, and this causes the hallucinations, in the study I am mentioning though, its strong doses as far as I can discern, but the free radical cascade results in severe mitochondrial damage, leading them to release caspase-3, resulting is apoptosis(neuronal suicide). So now its just discerning whether HPPD is most significantly from neuronal loss, or if it is more specifically axonal damage. That's HPPD, its that simple. Since the tests were in vitro though ill have to figure out how it translates to in vivo.

If its only mitochondrial dysfunction and axonal damage, not only will niacin fix it, but it will be the best treatment that I know of to date. If Niacin doesn't work, its simply just a cascade of neuronal loss, most specific to the cortical neurons, and interneurons. And then everything is just a shit fuck. I suppose at this point I'll just post the study, and everyone can just read all this.

Here is the study, if anyone says "but its MDMA" smack yourself and delete your post, the neuronal apoptosis, or death is mediated specifically via 5ht2a receptors, its also proven by 5ht2a receptor antagonist which block neuronal death. Its mainly in cortical neurons because they have the most dense amount of these receptors. This is main receptor all hallucinogens work on.

5ht2a Apoptosis.pdf

1 hour ago, Onemorestep said:

C60 fullerene permanently made me negative reactions to drugs that increase inflammation lessened. Was a very interesting experience. Cleaned me out for sure haha. 
it may have also deactivated EBV in me. At least in the lab it has been shown to allow it to go lytic from latent. 
but then, since almost everyone has EBV, you’d think those taking c60 would always get it? 
I was also being exposed to mold at the time. And a high level of strenuous exercise. 
/shrug.

very cool read man 

"An experiment in 2011-2012 administered a solution of C₆₀ in olive oil to rats, achieving a major prolongation of their lifespan.^[53] Since then, many oils with C₆₀ have been sold as antioxidant products, but it does not avoid the problem of their sensitivity to light, that can turn them toxic. A later research confirmated that exposition to light degrades solutions of C₆₀ in oil, making it toxic and leading to a 'massive' increase of the risk of developing cancer (tumors) after its consumption."^[51][52]

Should pretty much cover it I think, its an interesting compound, its probably via its electron affinity that it extends lifespan, Niacin extends lifespan in rat models as well, and it has no potential for toxicity, even when exposed to light.

Edit: I'm going to save this post for more reading, just to make sure my information is accurate.

16 hours ago, Jay1 said:

Chill our @Fawkinchit ... Help the OP understand where they got it wrong rather than berating them.

BTW - HPPD is a disorder, not a disease. 

In my defense I did leave useful information at the end lol.

It is proven neurotoxicity, I have the studies that show its mediated directly through 5htp2a receptors, and its cortical neuron loss/neurotoxicity specifically, driven by caspase-3 apoptosis. Hallucinogens do cause permanent brain damage. Ill be making a thread on it pretty soon.

As far as I understand its predominately just an antimicrobial, its really good at it too, but sage is slightly better IMO, for antimicrobial effectiveness that is. 

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