Fawkinchit

na i didnt meant this thread i spoke about the previous threads where we discussed why sinemet seems to help. also the comt inhibitors affect dopamine i dont know maybe this is showing where the imbalance is found? or the dopamin is only helpful because of its affect on brain damage in general. but that wouldnt make sense since in dr a. study up to 50% or more were symptom free after taking the trail for a few hours.

I see, I still am skeptical of an imbalance chemically, if there is thought, then whats causing it? I still feel that in some way or another these neurons are out of balance and overexcited. We need to track down the effects of 5ht2a receptors, and glutamate receptors and see what they are effecting and how, etc, we need to get our hands on some inverse agonists for the 5ht2a receptors as well, or even for glutamate receptors. These are both potentials. And we need to look farther in to gene expression etc.

We also need to try and get more people involved, we have some pretty smart people with this condition, we all just need to work together and focus together, once we all do that we will be unstoppable, but everyone needs to help and participate, itll be 1000x better than if we all do it on our own.

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BTW afew people report some relief because of magnesium which is natures own calcium channel blocker but maybe to weak to cure us.

if HPPD is caused by gene expressions as we talked about a few times before than the calcium channel could play a role and maybe taking c-c-blockers could silence the expressed gene again.

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the push and the pull

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Alright excellent man as peeviously mention im a drum n bass bmw and bmx guru...this medical stuff is a mystery. Your saying we know what aggrivates post hallucinogen visuals so we could find the opposite? Wait....cheese has calcium in it...i eat shit loads of cheese...particularly over the past few weeks....and iv worsened soooo much. Maybe calcium is fucking me up? Ie calcium is bad for hppd? I could live without cheese

Cheese is probably worsening your symptoms because of the tyramine. Wiki it and youll understand. I understand that you know alot about other subjects, but if you focus your time on medical things everything will come together, you just need to read and read and read. It can take years to start grasping the understand of things like this, but you have your whole life. So its best you start now cause from what Ive seen, no one in the medical industry wants to help.

Bump to this topic and would like to continue this research a thread that I made, obviously there is some connection here with the Na/K pump and overexcitation of neurons. heres the link to my thread

http://hppdonline.co...e-weight-to-it/

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Synaptic overstimulation can be as detrimental as understimulation. Cocaine, for example, interferes with the synaptic reuptake of the neurotransmitters dopamine, norepinephrine and serotonin, leading to an excessive amount of dopamine in the synaptic cleft, which causes intense stimulation of the central nervous system and extremely dangerous mental and cardiovascular effects. Another example of synaptic overstimulation is epileptic seizures, in which susceptible individuals experience episodes of hypersynchronization of cortical neurons, leading to convulsions or other involuntary brain attacks.
 

Approximately 20% of cortical neurons inhibit rather than excite their neighboring neurons.⁶ Synaptic inhibition is essential to cortical processing, and inhibitory neurons are especially diverse in morphology and function.^7,8 Inhibitory interneurons in the somatosensory cortex, for example, selectively suppress irrelevant input, filtering out incidental distractions and unchanging sensory stimuli.⁹ This allows the brain to focus. The brain, it would seem, values restraint. It values restraint not with the goal of inaction, but rather with the aim of achieving a controlled balance of calmness and intentionality.

More interesting information that shows that psychedelics dont use just 5HT2A receptors but also cause an interaction with mGluR2, not even sure what that is yet but its something we need to look in to.

This goes a long way to explaining one of the mysteries of serotonin which is this: if 5HT2A agonists like LSD are psychedelic, why aren't antidepressants the same? Almost all antidepressants work by increasing extracellular 5HT levels. That ought to mean that they activate 5HT2A receptors (indirectly). This explains why not - 5HT alone doesn't promote the crucial 5HT2A-mGluR2 interaction.

http://neuroskeptic....ale-of-two.html

Also, psychedelics are SUPERAGONISTS

this means that they are activated connectivity of the receptors beyond that that serotonin will. Possible further evidence on the burn out theory, that the synapses themselves have become damaged from to much electrical connectivity.

http://en.wikipedia....eceptor_agonist

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I was thinking about what you were saying and i was interested in what you were saying about the "electrical" circuitry of the CNS. Perhaps the pH in the synapses (w/ Ca, K etc.) is at play and somehow causing some sort of electro-chemical impedance similar to ohm-age in standard electronics. not sure lol

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These are some inverse agonist but unfortunately none have hit the market.

• AC-90179 - potent and selective inverse agonist at 5-HT_2A, also 5-HT_2C antagonist.^[44][45]
  

• Nelotanserin (APD-125) - selective 5-HT_2A inverse agonist developed by Arena Pharmaceuticals for the treatment of insomnia. APD-125 was shown to be effective and well tolerated in clinical trials.^[46]
  

• Eplivanserin (Sanofi Aventis), a sleeping pill that reached phase II trials (but for which the application for approval was withdrawn), acts as a selective 5-HT_2A inverse agonist.
  

• Pimavanserin (ACP-103) - more selective than AC-90179, orally active, antipsychotic in vivo, now in human clinical trials.^{[47][48][49][50]}
  

• Volinanserin
  

everything is not 100% back to normal. Or else we wouldn't be having these symtoms: visual disturbances among other things anxiety, depression etc. I am talking about SSRIs and how they may help, not about drugs that have long left our systems. Aside from other neuronal damage, with HPPD, i believe, the neurons are not firing on all cylinders. I haven't even gotten to the visual cortex; my knowledge there is somewhat limited.

I only said chemically it is all back to normal. If it werent the problem wouldnt be that hard to fix I would assume.

I believe the receptors are there all the time, they don't get produced or killed (generally). ......You are right though it is electro-chemical. I think that some neurons don't fire as much though with HPPD. DNA alteration i think could be possible, maybe probable. ......I think that some of the basics are that you have two main neurotransmitters: glutamate and GABA. Then you have serotonin. And then you have other neurotransmitters that have larger molecules: dopamine, epinephrine, norepinephrine, histamine. And you have peptides and other amino acids also. I think GABA is general inhibitory and glutamate is excitatory. Serotonin is 5-HT; made from tryptophan in the neuron.

The receptors do get wasted away and replaced, The only receptors at play here are the 5HT2A receptors, the nuerotransmitters glutamate and gaba effect completely other receptors, Hallucinogens effect only 5HT2A receptors, which activate only certain areas of the brain, so our focus is there, and only there. Messing around with glutamate or GABA is easy and has been done already with benzodiazapines and the effects are temporary relief of symptoms, if that.

You see the idea of reuptake is on a presynaptic side. If you inhibit that action, you get more serotonin in the synapse that will hang around and bind themselves post-synaptically.

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i looked up the drug and it could definitely be promising. I like the "black/white" ideas, cause it's kinda how i think too, but i've had to change the way i look at things a bit because there are so many receptors and some chemicals effect one receptor one way and effect another receptor another way, and there can actually be big differences in actions between 2 analogues.








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Here's my take: what you really want is serotonin to bind with these receptors, not some other chemical to take its place. Yeah you have agonists but a lot of them are hallucinogens.....lol........RC chemicals, dmt, lsd, mescaline etc. ...........as of right now the best things are small amounts of benzos and re-uptake inhibitors (dopamine, norepinephrine, serotonin, etc.) which leaves more neurotransmitter jumping around the cleft and binding.

True, but im not sure what youre getting at. 

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I definitely feel alot of your pain, when I first got hppd I didn't know what it was as I thought hppd was just seeing revisuals of a trip and mostly associated with lsd. I still currently have hppd though it is much better now. When it first started I thought I was about ready to die soon. The anxiety was MASSIVE, I had thoughts of paranoia, very strong disequilibrium, always had to be leaning on something, and the occasional visual snow. After about three months of this my hair started falling out and I got an ulcer cause the stress was just to bad. I spent alot of my nights sitting in a single couch chair, watching tv though not very able to focus, trying to reassure myself I wasn't dying, I went to doctors, had ct scans, mris, ekgs, none of them knew what was wrong with me. Finally after alot of research I was able to put two and two together, and realized I had hppd. It wasn't until I read up on visual snow(I called it visual static at the time cause I had no idea what it was) that I started to realize that maybe I was having some sort of migraine, and then found that it was a symptom of hppd as well. I had to stop drinking any stimulants at all, I used to drink 1 - 1.5 of those large 7 eleven coffees every day, I also had to go off my supplement regimen. I couldn't do much either, fatigue and mental fatigue were very extreme in the beginning, I was normally waking up at 6am, then I I could barely get out of bed at 10am, and I had dark bags under my eyes, Its gotten better, not enough to be back where I was, its been 6 to 7 months now, and I can drink a little bit of coffee here an there, but if I have to much it brings up my anxiety. Derealization doesn't happen anymore, nor does the visual static, the disequilibrium is now gone most of the time but returns mildly every once and a while, not nearly as bad as it was as I no longer have to lean on things all the time now. The paranoia is also gone now as well, though I do still have some learned thought patterns that still occur from it lol. But like i have read so many times, its the anxiety thats the worst!

Also I would like to add, lack of sleep and stress would make the symptoms worse, it was when i read some info stating that that I realized it had to be hppd.

Anyways I was thinking that hppd probably occurs due to the agonist effect of hallucinogens on the 5ht receptors, maybe an antagonist will reverse the effect?

EDIT: actually after some quick reading I came across this:

Antidotes

Adverse effects of psychotropics are often treated with fast-acting benzodiazepines like diazepamor triazolam that have calming and antianxiety effects but do not directly affect the specific actions of psychotropics. Theoretically, specific 5-HT_2A receptor antagonists, which most commonly means atypical antipsychotics (quetiapine, olanzapine, risperidone, etc.) or other 5-HT_2Aantagonist such as trazodone or mirtazapine, would be direct antidotes, although some anecdotal reports claim otherwise.^[63] Also, some people have reported that taking an SSRI such asfluoxetine will counteract the effects of LSD.^[64] Some reports indicate that although administration of chlorpromazine (Thorazine) or similar typical antipsychotic tranquilizers will not end an LSD trip, it will either lessen the intensity or immobilize and numb the patient, a side effect of the medication.^[65] While it also may not end an LSD trip, the best chemical treatment for a "bad trip" is an anxiolytic agent such as diazepam (Valium) or another benzodiazepine. As the effect of the drug is psychological as well as physical, any treatment should focus on calming the patient. Limiting stimuli such as bright lights and loud noises can help in the event of an ill reaction.

It says just theoretically it would be an antidote, but if I recall, hallucinogens effect 5ht1B receptors as well.

Even on this site I read about a guy who took 5htp and said that it helped his symptoms.