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no drugs, just unlucky


Qzi
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I made an account a while ago because I wanted to look into HPPD for a school project. Honestly, the oldest memory I have of HPPD symptoms go back to about 2000 when I was four. After watching X-men I liked to think I had cool super-powers and fight off the visual snow and other things. There was a weird migraine I had when I was young, but I don't remember when that was, only that every sound and light hurt like hell. Either way, I've always dealt with it without realizing that what I was seeing wasn't right.

 

Anyway, I never done drugs, the closest is probably anesthesia for a surgery, being a native growing up seeing alcoholism pretty much turned me towards being a shut-in. I've always wanted to ask other people what they saw when they closed their eyes, and what they heard when everything was quite, but never made too much friends. Throughout school, it always felt like people were fake and I was watching everthing happen, from first grade to the last year. I am only a year out of school, and decided not to go to college because I am good with computers, only 17 by the way.

 

Really, what I have is not so bad as the other peole who post here. Only some general things affect me, visual snow, starbursting, walls/clouds or other large non-pattern scenes breathing, and there are other things I don't recall. In general driving at night, trying to fall asleep or white, static backgrounds all suck, otherwise I have fun messing with my mind staring at walls or patterns and just watching them do things. I'm not sure why I am posting here, but this effects me too much to ignore it and hope to not aggravate it. I'd like to learn more about it so I could explain why I stare at weird things to people and be okay with it since I am pretty sure I am going to live with it.

 

Edit: Is the settings page broke, or is my browser just too difficult, using firefox 33, might check with chrome when I am not sleepy.

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Hi Qzi... you don't have hppd, hppd is specific to drug use... But you clearly do suffer from many of the symptoms, so I am sure you will find some helpful advice here.... My only concern is that certain things that don't work for us, might work for you (and vice versa), as you perhaps have not damaged your receptors.

 

Of course, you are welcome to stick around and will find some helpful people here, but also be sure to check out www.thosewithvisualsnow.com

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Also, what do you mean by damaged receptors?

 

It is only a theory, but the drugs often associated with hppd (LSD, MDMA, Shrooms) cause a huge release of serotonin and dopamine, or work on the serotonin/dopamine receptors. This huge overload has the potential to stop these receptors from working properly and they might never heal.

 

As you have never had this overload from drugs, your receptors should be fine..... but you may be lacking serotonin/dopamine. This is what i mean by saying things that affect us terribly, like SSRIs, may actual show some benefit for you.

 

This is pure speculation on my part though, so always consult a doctor.

 

All the best, Jay

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Yea, Qzi.

 

Some of these symptoms are semi-normal.  Floaters, static-y vision, migraine symptoms, etc.

 

Hallucinations are a different story and i am concerned that you are seeing things "breathing".  

 

Sky's the limit though.   I mean there could be a thousand possible reasons why you developed these symptoms. 

 

I hope it's not MK-ULTRA.  That's all i am saying.    jk.

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Dr Abraham (a researcher of HPPD) states on his website that HPPD can occur without recreational drug use, and it indicates an underlying neurological weakness.  There are also people getting HPPD from non-recreation drugs such as antibiotics for acne.

 

You'll see Visual Snow forums discussing the same symptoms as HPPD (and as you) but without relating to drug use.  Often born with it, again as you.

 

Besides the drug-link, perhaps the biggest thing about HPPD isn't the obvious visual symptoms.  The most debilitating seems to be anxiety and depression ... even to the point of being unable to work or being suicidal.

 

When I was a kid, had mild CEVs which I too would 'play' with.  They slowly reduced and were gone in my 20s.  With my visual problems now, CEVs are not part of them.

 

The point is, you have an underlying weakness but you are used to it.  It sounds like you can get on with life and enjoy it.  To understand more what might be at the root of the problem will take time ... and considering non-visual features/symptoms of your life.  Since you are on this website, you have some concern.  Just take it lightly (don't OCD it) and you may find something helpful.  It is also tricky since you have lived with it, it is hard to know for sure what 'baseline' health should be.  You are alive and otherwise healthy.

 

As for meds for your symptoms, what helps one person often doesn't help another.  But there are principles of how different brain systems work and meds that may affect them.  For example, researchers now understand that CEVs (geometric patterns) come from overactivity in the part of the brain that does edge-detection (one aspect of visual processing).

 

As for stationary objects that move/breathe, the brain uses contrast to determine depth perception.  Weakness there will cause what you experience.  Visual puzzles and illusions exploit contrast to make their illusions - by using 'unnatural' contrast patterns in a picture, they make objects 'move' by confusing the brain.

 

I don't have snow but have 'white' in the dark.  It is significant when taking anything that increases serotonin.  It is resolved by dopamine meds, and helped with GABA meds.

 

So ... you have an open exploration before you.  Just have fun with it as you seek to learn new things.

 

Do you still get migraines or just that one 'wopper'?

Are you good with algebra but not people?

Are you unusually restless or 'hyper'?

How is ambition and 'energy'?

How is coordination or sports?

Are you taking any meds?

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I know it is being pedantic, but how can Hallucinogen persisting perception disorder be non drug related? The clue is in the first word there! 

 

Anyway, i've always maintained that HPPD is not an singular disorder, more a combination of disorders that all can occur to people without drug use.

 

But I really, really struggle with the idea that someone who has never done a hallucinogen can feel the mindbending trippiness that comes with severe hppd. If they do, then my heart breaks for them.

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Visual may be right. Then again Jay has a good point in terms of the wording.

I think people may have predispositions to hppd. And I once read a book about a guy taking a sleeping drug named halcion and becoming psychotic. And think there is definitely a possibility that those psychotic-esque symptoms can persist. Certainly with what visual is saying with fluoroquinolone antibiotics and prednisone is a real issue. Also if you were a smoker and I mixed 5 chantix pills with your blueberry smoothie, it might make you suicidal for 4-5 days. God knows what the symptoms would be ....?

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Serotonine is in relation with a lot or PPD issues. For example, can MDMA or others drugs put your serotonine system in extreme form, and opportunities infections that were controlled for your body hurts you permanently?

Can shrooms hurts your digestive tract as a fungal?

I think a lot of people have antibodies of a lot of diseases/infections, and a drug can put your brain paying attention to other things, so, the inmune system can be with any prottection, and some virus or fungal can attack.

Only supposes

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Or maybe that I'm saying it's true, but HPPD is a similar disorder than PPD (without hallucinegic drugs) and have different factors, how, a fried serotonine system (receptores aren't good)

A lot or people, with PPD, as me, have pain, paresthesias, itching, burning, low-grade fever, sore-troath, extreme exhaustion... so maybe the visual disturbances can be connected talking about causes, as extreme funtion or bazo, and the other bad symptoms are forma infections or fungal.

Hate that shit.

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Jay, as far as I am concerned drugs that cause hallucinations have to be involved. I totally agree with you, with that.

I think that it is not only the serotonin system but yeah man that is certainly important, jager.

Drugs like bromo dragonfly worry me. These drugs with amphetamine and hallucinogenic properties together scare me. Also drugs with dissociative and anesthetic properties such as PCP. I believe (don't mean to be off topic) that in the late 90s they began cutting LSD with bromo.

Now with places like silk rooad, drugs like heroin should be our least concern. These other drugs scare me.

To me, Hppd is a disorder that was started from bad reactions to LSD that had lasting effect. Basically a flashback disorder. But usually in the form of a constant flashback: the trip that never ends.

But with these designer drugs, research chems and so called legal highs they have taken drugs that aren't particularly traditional hallucinogens, you get a new wave of suffering with new cases: different symptoms.

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The name HPPD is from the origin of how it has been studied - hallucinogens.  But like so many neurological fields, different groups are studying the same thing from a different perspective.  When you read on visual snow forums, people will report every symptom that you read here ... it is just they've always had it or don't know what started it.

 

And serotonin isn't the only hallucinogen.  It's just, perhaps, the most striking in its effects, visual, floating, imaginative.  With cocaine and other dopamine based drugs, people can hallucinate paranoia and euphoria.  Both can create states of lost reality but do so very differently.

 

Perhaps the name FUBS (fouled up brain systems).  Then all we got to do is clean the carbon out of the spark plugs ...

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I agree with visual. People who overdose on amphetamines can get a lasting low level psychosis with visual disturbances (I am not sure if you consider hppd simply a visual or perceptual disorder that doesn't effect the psyche to eventually have ill psychopathological effects).

So that's where the dopamine line comes.

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 1 year later...

I made an account a while ago because I wanted to look into HPPD for a school project. Honestly, the oldest memory I have of HPPD symptoms go back to about 2000 when I was four. After watching X-men I liked to think I had cool super-powers and fight off the visual snow and other things. There was a weird migraine I had when I was young, but I don't remember when that was, only that every sound and light hurt like hell. Either way, I've always dealt with it without realizing that what I was seeing wasn't right.

Anyway, I never done drugs, the closest is probably anesthesia for a surgery, being a native growing up seeing alcoholism pretty much turned me towards being a shut-in. I've always wanted to ask other people what they saw when they closed their eyes, and what they heard when everything was quite, but never made too much friends. Throughout school, it always felt like people were fake and I was watching everthing happen, from first grade to the last year. I am only a year out of school, and decided not to go to college because I am good with computers, only 17 by the way.

Really, what I have is not so bad as the other peole who post here. Only some general things affect me, visual snow, starbursting, walls/clouds or other large non-pattern scenes breathing, and there are other things I don't recall. In general driving at night, trying to fall asleep or white, static backgrounds all suck, otherwise I have fun messing with my mind staring at walls or patterns and just watching them do things. I'm not sure why I am posting here, but this effects me too much to ignore it and hope to not aggravate it. I'd like to learn more about it so I could explain why I stare at weird things to people and be okay with it since I am pretty sure I am going to live with it.

Edit: Is the settings page broke, or is my browser just too difficult, using firefox 33, might check with chrome when I am not sleepy.

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Hi. Is Qzi still on or someone else with likewise symptom history of childhood onset hppd with no history of drug use? The above bio is near mirror to my own, particularly it having begun in early childhood. I am very curious as to this disorder at the moment as I appear to be sensitive to side effects to medication (particularly worsening symptoms of hppd and auditory tinnitus which was not present previously). Before the onset and through adulthood, I had never used or needed to, any prescription medication. However now in adulthood as I am using them, it has proven problematic. I worry this sensitivity might make me prone to perhaps other neurological side effects of the medication (noted as especially rare but potential). I have concerns, particularly after the tinnitus that I might be in that category of the 'rare but potential. Visual snow is definitely not solely germane to post or present psychedelic drug use. I am hoping to learn more from people here, particularly whom may have struggled with it as a child.

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