Theanine and Dopamine receptors

[andrewcb]

Hey all,

I'm on a amino acid stack that I have put together and as of now I am taking 750mg agmatine a few times a week for workouts, DLPA 1500mg daily, tyrosine(I know it is the same thing as DLPA but I have both so using lol) 1000-2000mg a day, taurine at 2000mg a day and 2000 to 2500mg bcaa I got a few times a week. I am wanting to add theanine to this and was wondering if anyone has experience with it. I was hoping for better sleep and increased dopamine which is basically what my stack is based on.

 

Also is there anything to increase your dopamine receptors? I am talking about creating more, I don't want to have all this dopamine floating around but nothing to catch it. I was reading about Uridine and CDP-Choline but haven't got much into it.

 

Thank you,

Andrew

[brake]

Theanine does make you sleepy and calm in my experience. Also made me feel weird and made my vision a little weird (sorry that's the only way I can describe it lol).

[VisualDude]

There aren't any chemicals (beyond good nutrition) to develop more receptors.  The way to create more receptors is to 'exercise' them.  The brain is a learning machine.  Dopamine is a neurotransmitter of motivation and activity.

 

You can't just target one type of receptor but you can target systems:

 

Playing ball develops coordination - that targets the midbrain (major dopamine area) and cerebellum.  These areas involve both movement and vision.

 

Learn to play a musical instrument.  It develops fine control of hands, fingers, etc.

 

Practice creativity.  Draw pictures, write poems, even music.  Creativity involves dopamine.

 

Do visual exercises - depth perception, puzzles, flash number and try to remember them

 

Practice 'joy' and positive feelings.  Develop friendships.  These are dopamine, opiod and oxytocin areas.

 

 

Don't do it impatiently or with self criticism.  Learning is highly emotional involved.  Fear, anger, or fun.  Work with the latter ...many of us have enough 'fear' receptors.

[Syntheso]

There are a few studies that show it is possible to increase certain receptor densities. Although, I have only seen this in mice.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1908237/?tool=pmcentrez

CDP-choline is anti-dopaminergic, oddly.

[andrewcb]

There are a few studies that show it is possible to increase certain receptor densities. Although, I have only seen this in mice.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1908237/?tool=pmcentrez

CDP-choline is anti-dopaminergic, oddly.

 

I did buy me some CDP-choline last night, I read it increases density as well. I also purchased something called Uridine. Going to give these a try for a little bit and see how it goes. Just trying to get my energy levels, motivation and mood up really.

[WuWei]

Theanine seems pretty benign...

 

I stopped taking it for a while after having some weird dreams on it.  It did help me get deep relaxing sleep before that.  I actually took a small dose earlier after accidentally getting too much caffeine from some tea I had.  It also counteracts caffeine overdose...

 

Here's to hoping there's no more weird dreams!  I'd like to be able to take some from time to time.  Studies suggest it's good for your brain in general.  The Japanese have been putting it in their soft drinks and snacks for years.

[VisualDude]

There are a few studies that show it is possible to increase certain receptor densities. Although, I have only seen this in mice.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1908237/?tool=pmcentrez

 

Super cool!  Way to go.  Curiously, this is in the whole phosphatidylcholine (lecithin), phosphatidylserine, and  glycerylphosphorylcholine (GPC not Alpha-GPC) thing - - - phospholipids.  They are vital for neurons, particularly for myelin and the neural membrane.  This would apply for all neurons, not just dopaminergic ones.

 

For those with any sort of sensitivity to soy (allergy, or because of its over use in industrialized contries), get it from eggs, a non-soy source or use GPC.  The whole 'good nutrition' thingy.

 

 

It is important to read this study carefully.  And it is missing one very important 'group' that might clarify a very important question - does it increase or just preserve these receptor sights?

 

There are 4 groups:

 

2 month old young mice

19 month old old mice

19 month old mice fed 100mg/kg starting at 1 year old

19 month old mice fed 500mg/kg starting at 1 year old

 

A 5th group to examine should be 1 year old mice - the state of mice brains before futher effects of aging

 

Note: "The Bmax values obtained with treated animals always lay between the reference values of the young and old animals."

 

This demonstrates a preservation of D₂ and mAChRs. 

 

In general, it would not be too much of a stretch to say there may be some increase.  But this study doesn't actually demonstrate it.  The mAChRs of the 500mg/kg very much matched the young.  But the D₂ receptors were not even close in either group.

 

Because of the missing group, this statement concerns me: "It is concluded that chronic administration of CDP-choline to aged animals promoted a partial recovery of the striatum dopamine and acetylcholine receptor function normally reduced with aging, which might be explicable in terms of mechanisms involving fluidity of the brain neuronal membrane."

 

Also wording such as "Treated animals displayed an increase in the dopamine receptor densities...".  Perhaps better to say, "Treated animals displayed higher receptor densities than untreated animals of the same age group".

 

Perhaps this is a 'professional' language thing.  Or perhaps an artifact of the thinking structure of Spanish language expressed in English.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kqyev46qyI

 

If I've missed something in reading the study, please correct.

 

 

Although not discussing dopamine, this one states the effects more as preservations "...CDP-choline supplementation can ameliorate..." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC548494/

 

 

 

All this aside, the biochemistry and potential effects of cytidine 5'-diphosphocholine warrant trying it.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citicoline   

 

 

 

CDP-choline is anti-dopaminergic, oddly.

 

Would you please provide some references for this one?  At the moment, am not finding info to that effect.

[Syntheso]

 "The increase in DA content, decrease in locomotion and enhancement of the effect of apomorphine can be explained on the hypothesis that CDP-choline may act as an antagonist on the DA neurons and receptors."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7253343

It is not completely conclusive, so I shouldn't have stated it so, but there is the indication.

I will respond to your other points asap.

[andrewcb]

What is the difference between GPC and CPD? I got a almost full bottle of GPC but it makes me really agitated, would CDP do the same thing? I read somewhere you just need a low dose of CDP for increase dopamine density, I just don't know what a low dose would be, the ones I got are 250 mg.

 

@Wuwei.......how long did you take it for when you were having your weird dreams? I do not dream at all really, I take melatonin and the first time I took it I dreamed but that was it. I wouldn't mind dreaming it would be something different for me! Maybe take it every night consecutively and you might get use to it and stop having weird dreams. I don't know if that is how it works lol but it seems like anything that would make me dream would only do it the first few days at most. Ah I remember my first few times taking xanax, dreams were so realistic.

[WuWei]

Well no weird dreams last night- slept great. 

 

I think I had been taking it for a couple weeks when I started noticing the correlation between dreams and theanine. 

[Syntheso]

Visual, check this out; http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3064905

If anyone has access to the full study, could you send it over.