Question about receptors! I would love your help to solve this.

[andrewcb]

If you don't want to read this whole thing I don't blame you, although I do have a lot of questions here and this is quiet long, one of my main questions is in the last paragraph. So if you could please read that and give me your thoughts that would be nice.

Thank you

 

Ok, I know this isn't the best site to ask this question but I like to stick with my community. I was a long time opioid user. Around 2 years of 60mg daily hydrocodone, 20mg 3x a day. I was also on the Suboxone program(I used Subutex, Suboxone made me a jerk) for around 8 months and this was the last 8 months of using opioids. Subutex(same main active chemical as what is in Suboxone) from what I have read is 40-70x stronger then Morphine but Subutex has a ceiling effect. So I was taking 12mg a day for a month, dropped to 8mg a day the next month and then went to 2mg a month for the remaining months minus a few weeks of using 1mg to half a mg.

 

Ok that is the first part which will mean something here soon. Ok now the part that confuses me. Supposedly your brain creates more opioid receptors over time of using opioids. Supposedly your receptors get dense. Supposedly you deplete your brains natural chemicals, endorphins in the case from what I have gathered. Ok now this is a lot of "supposedly's", my Doctor told me your brain does produce its natural endorphins that this is a misconception and it is the receptor itself that is damaged. I and everyone here can safely say you do damage your receptor. But what here is true and what isn't or in some sense is it all true. Does your brain really create more receptors and you have to give it time for it to deplete those receptors until it is back to your normal amount? Or do you have one receptor that is totally damaged and dense that it can't absorb its natural endorphins? Is your brain even producing its natural amount endorphins? I could ask more questions but you see where I am going with this and what I am asking lol.

 

Ok so now back to Subutex. How in the world is Subutex suppose to help you. It is in fact, a opioid and if you research it, it is one powerful opioid that strongly binds to your receptor(s). How is it possible that this down regulates your receptor without throwing you in WD(I think that is how it works, down regulates?). So I was on the Subutex program, which is a total gimmick, harder to get off of then any opioid, Gabapentin or Lyrica should be used instead IMO, and if I was to assume the "Doctors" who prescribe this crap are correct, I should be back to baseline or just about. I used Subutex for 8 months and was off of opioids for 2 months, used Tramadol at 150-300mg for 2 weeks after them 2 months, didn't use any other opioids for another month and now have been using Kratom for a month.

 

I do not believe my receptors are healed or even close to being healed, I truly think Subutex does nothing and in fact may be worse. I have used Hydrocodone twice since being off Subutex, months being off of it. One time a weak 15mg, did nothing, another time 30mg, felt it a little bit. Now I am not looking to get high I was looking for a mood-lift, motivation and anxiety relief, which I could use to get off of 20mg and now can't get.

 

I want to start with Kratom is not a opiate, it is a opioid, in the terms that it binds to the opioid receptor. Not all opioids are opiates.

I also take Agmatine which is suppose to potentate opioids, stop or slow down tolerance and regulate the opioid receptor. I think I read it right, can someone confirm this?

http://www.mindandmuscle.net/forum/27326-agmatine-opiate-tolerance

http://examine.com/supplements/Agmatine/

Ok, now I am using Kratom and I mean I have to put down 3 tablespoons, not teaspoons, tablespoons, to get any kind of lift and it is very mild. I think this is because my receptors are just messed up. Here is my BIG QUESTION, I REALLY NEED HELP HERE. Since Kratom is a very mild opioid and hardly binds, will using this allow my receptors to heal, obviously not as fast as if I just took no opioids, but will it allow my receptors to come back to a better state so to speak. I really want the effects a lot of people get from Kratom. Opioids, in particular Hydrocodone, just give me that motivation to go out there and do it, it takes my mind off what I see and feel and I feel happy, it may not be how some people would want to live but I want to be happy and motivated like everyone else so if it works for me why not. So bottom line, is Kratom doing more damage or is it just slowing down the healing process of my receptors. Do you think in the long run if I continue to take Kratom, lower my dose for 3 tablespoons to 1 tablespoon, I might start feeling its effects down the road? Any thoughts or advice on this will be greatly appreciated. And to the people who took the time to read this I really appreciate your help and caring, feel free to PM me any time if you ever need help, if I can't find the answer for you I will try my best to get someone who can.

 

Again, any advice, any help, you don't have to know facts even a thought would be great help.

Thank you,

Andrew

[brake]

I am no professional but if I were in your shoes I would lay off all the pills so that my brain could heal and that I could stop relying on them. I would just stick to the kratom as long as it wouldn`t worsen my visuals.

[andrewcb]

Yeah I don't take pills or anything, although I did order some poppy seeds lol, which come in today *joy* but I only plan on using 50 grams to make my tea vs half a pound or so. I am not using it to get high or even feel its effects. Just the psychoactive properties which can be achieved without getting high. For example I was on a decent amount of hydrocodones, 60mg is a lot to people, but I was only taking 20mg 3x a day to equal that 60. I was never getting high off them in fact it would take 30 pills and a dead liver later to get high from them if I wanted to. I just hope the poppy seed tea doesn't set me back real far it is like playing with fire. I know once you are in the state of PAWS(post acute withdrawal symptom) which follows months to years after quitting the use of a substance after long term use even one usage can set you back damn near close to step one as far as receptor healing goes. I think this could be the case with HPPD too. The best way to recover is avoid all drugs that includes caffeine, nicotine, beer and all that other stuff. Who knows what is wrong with our brains, it could be at the receptor level and even into one year of healing something you do can set you back to square one and it only takes one or a few times to do this. I just plan on using the poppy seed tea in conjunction with my Kratom to boost each others effects. Really I don't care about my visuals when I am under the influence, they are still there in my face but just not caring about them really reduces it since I am giving no attention.

 

I did coke again! Last night, need to just not go out anymore. It is a real set back this is my second time in less then 7 days and I can really feel the impact it has put on me both visually and mentally. Really agitates my dp/dr.

 

Sorry this is all thrown together sloppy, like I said the set back I had last night has me off my game.

 

Thank you,

Andrew

[Mr.50's]

Holy shit you did coke!? Well it isn't that bad if I were going to do a drug with hppd I would have done either coke or an opioid . What was it

Like? How did it effect your visuals

[brake]

I wouldn`t want depression and anxiety from HPPD plus a come down from another drug.

[andrewcb]

It just makes my dp/dr pretty bad for that day and somewhat worse the next day. But I am high so hell I really don't care about the dp/dr at the time, being in a car driving while on coke and your dp/dr is bad at night is pretty tough though. It is like you are driving in a dream while being high, to me, it literally feels like a video game and I am not driving but the earth is moving and I control that if that makes sense lol. Kind of like being at the arcade playing a racing game and you just sit in the screen and look at the screen that is how it gets. I usually have this but is WAY worse on coke.

[andrewcb]

I think it also has to do with rem cycles of sleep. When I wake up at the right time I feel 90% better and then at the wrong time my visuals go nuts. Usually sleep helps though.

I have been sleeping 8 hours now compared to 5-6 hours I use to sleep. I liked sleeping 5-6 hours better. I ran across something one day that said your dopamine or serotonin levels, possibly both I can't remember, increase when you sleep less or are sleep deprived. So maybe sleeping 8 hours for me is to much, I need it but my brain works better on 5-6. Who knew! That article could of been full of crap though I am not sure, never read much into it.

[brake]

Yeah I read the same thing about your dopamine levels increasing to make up for the lack of sleep. Which would explain why some people are so talkative and hyper when they don`t get sleep.