Tianeptine - seems to have potential

[Puppeteer]

I stumbled upon discussion of tianeptine whilst lurking the usual haunts, and I've been gradually gaining interest in it. Don't quite have the wits about me to construct a well thought-out analysis of its benefits, but I'll cite a few things and hopefully a few of you can look into it and share your thoughts. I know Odisa tried it for a little while, but it sounds like administration for 6 weeks+ is necessary to experience the full effects.

 

Tianeptine is the only known SSRE - a selective serotonin reuptake enhancer - i.e., the opposite action to SSRI class ADs. While common sense would perhaps suggest that this would exacerbate depression, the opposite is true. Many a source cite this apparent disparity as an indication of just how complex and poorly-understand the mechanisms of depression are. From Wikipedia: "Tianeptine reduces the effects of "serotonin in the limbic system and the pre-frontal cortex, giving rise to a mood elevation, unlike the mood blunting associated with SSRI".

 

"[Tianeptine is] a neuroprotective antidepressant that reverses the neuronal damage and lasting misery caused by chronic, uncontrolled stress. Tianeptine acts both as a non-sedating anti-anxiety agent and a non-stimulating mood-brightener." (from tianeptine.com, which isn't a commercial site despite its name; it's actually a branch of David Pearce's Good Drug Guide, which is a great resource generally). This is reflected by a couple of animal studies.

 

"The use of tianeptine is not associated with the adverse effects commonly reported with tricyclic antidepressants (sedation, effects on attention and memory) or SSRIs (sexual dysfunction, nausea)." (source).

 

One thing that jumped out of me was a patent filed in 2005 (so potentially not worth much, as I can't find much else about it since) titled "Application of tianeptine in preparation of medicine for treating or preventing MDMA nerve toxicity". Thought it was worth throwing out there as I know a few of us have MDMA to blame for a lot of our HPPD issues.

 

Anyhow, there's a lot more that could be added to this but I need to be off; I'll probably return to this thread soon. It probably doesn't need to be said but take all this with a grain of salt; it's definitely not a constructive mindset to be hopping from one potential cure-all pill to the next and I'm still trying to break away from doing so myself. I think a lot of us just need to accept that there probably isn't a silver bullet drug-wise, and quite possibly nothing close to it, like Keppra is for the lucky few. Also, ever the optimist, this thread only deals with the positives I've read about; haven't encountered a lot of negative data but like everything it's gotta be out there. A few people have had lukewarm or unpleasant reactions to it.

 

Those curious should definitely look into it for themselves; www.tianeptine.com is a very thorough and interesting read, as is this study aggregation/analysis: The neurobiological properties of Tianeptine (Stablon): from monoamine hypothesis to glutamatergic modulation.

 

Hope everyone's doing well!

 

 

 

[Puppeteer]

~

[onedayillsailagain]

I've tried Tianeptine for a short while (2-3 weeks).. Perhaps I didn't give it a long enough trial. I still have some lying around though.
To be honest I didn't notice much. Perhaps the first few days some anxiolysis, after that nothing.

But I'd say that it's worth a shot; and definitely preferable over most SSRI's. I had 0 adverse effects.

[Puppeteer]

Hey Odisa!

 

What dosage were you taking? And it certainly sounds like any reversal of stress-related neuronal damage would require some time to occur - and who's to say whether that'd have much to do with HPPD anyhow. Honestly, I'm primarily interested in it for the anxiolytic and antidepressant qualities without the risks that rule SSRIs out, rather than expecting any noteworthy change to HPPD symptoms (though of course that'd be nice!). It's tempting to order some given how easily available it is online, but I'm holding back until I'm certain it's worth a shot - ruling out any potential interactions with lamotrigine (which unfortunately doesn't seem to be doing much even at 100mg BID)/supplements/etc. Given the vast range of pharmaceuticals/supps that are discussed on here I'm surprised that the only real mention of tianeptine is from you earlier this year.

[onedayillsailagain]

Hey Puppeteer,
I was taking 3 pills a day, which I think would be 3 x 12,5 = 37,5mg.
I wouldn't know about interactions with Lamotrigine, but in my experience Tianeptine is rather benign stuff.
I think there's relatively little mention of it because it is not available in the US afaik. Anyway, I'll send you a PM in a few.

[Puppeteer]

Wow, uh.

 

Wasn't really sure just how tianeptine was affecting me at the 15mg-ish dosage 3x daily I was taking for a month or so... My 5g tub from newmind arrived recently so tonight I figured, hey, I know people use this stuff recreationally sometimes, why not try a high dose and see what happens.

 

Probably took about 80mg a couple of hours ago and... I've felt really, really pleasant. It's crazy. I haven't felt this good in quite a while. I'm just lying on the couch in the dark, listening to some tunes... and I'm enjoying music! Actually enjoying it! I have this pleasant, warm feeling throughout... Pretty happy, dare I say it - optimistic. It's not like I'm pumped to go for an early morning hike or go land a job this instant or cook a four course meal or anything too dramatic, but it's nice! I do feel in some ways like my old self.

 

I'll report back with how I'm feeling in the morning, and I'll be sure to give this another shot during the day when I'm out and about to see whether it'll be practical for getting stuff done. Obviously it's not recommendable to take a "recreational dose" of anything regularly, but it could be a nice thing to take on social occasions and the like.

 

So long as I don't wake up with horribly exacerbated symptoms or something, I'm definitely going to start using this regularly for some time, I think. Probably at 20mg or so three times daily... Try to find the lowest dose it takes to be able to go "Yep, I can definitely feel something". 

 

Hoping Visual might chime in on this thread.

 

Definitely think tianeptine's worth considering for those looking for things to try.

[StateOfRegret]

Hey, Puppeteer, did you continue using tianeptine?

[Syntheso]

The glutamate modulation is very promising. I've also had my eye on it for the SSRE properties and that it appears to upregulate serotonin receptors

[Syntheso]

Anyone tried it?

[Puppeteer]

Erm, I've finished the 5 grams I bought in December, so that's approximately 3 months at ~20mg TID. I wish I were able to describe my experience with it in depth, but my sensitivity to mild perceptual/cognitive changes is considerably lacking - I really ought to put more effort toward maintaining a diary, but the ebb and flow of motivation tends to restrict such pursuits. As mentioned above, I can attest to a subtle increase in happiness, a pleasant sensation of warmth, and reduction of anxiety immediately after dosing. Being off it I haven't noticed any lasting, noticeable improvement, unfortunately, but maybe a couple more months would've done it, who knows. I'm definitely not ruling out revisiting it in the future, once I've trialled NSI-189 and 7,8-DHF, but for now it's out of my stack.

I'd be really interested in hearing your take on it though! The negatives are very minimal and a more thorough and technical evaluation than mine would be very useful.

[StateOfRegret]

I think I can reveal, without disclosing any confidential information, that both syntheso and I are acquiring some Tianeptine :-P Will of course keep you guys posted! :-)

[Syntheso]

I think I can reveal, without disclosing any confidential information, that both syntheso and I are acquiring some Tianeptine :-P Will of course keep you guys posted! :-)

Yus, indeed!

[StateOfRegret]

I just took 12.5mg 10 minutes ago (23:32 in my time zone, pleasantly symmetric number ). This is the standard dose, usually taken three times daily (t.i.d.). This, however, is just a one-off trial for now. I will report back if I feel anything. All I'm feeling right now is some anxiety and wooziness - all pretty standard for me when trying new medications. I have what I guess you could call "medication anxiety".

 

Update:
T+63min: Nothing spectacular - nothing that couldn't be attributed to placebo. Have a slight headache and neck tension, but that isn't too uncommon for me. Feeling slightly 'high' in an indefinable way. Don't feel substantially calmer than before. Today has been one of the better days anxiety-wise, anyway.

 

T+68min: The real test will come once I retire to bed (quite soon), as this is usually when panic ensues.

Seems to have given me the "munchies", have eaten half a bag of crisps + some homebaked cake in the last ~15 minutes. Again, may not be due to the drug .

 

T+97min: Pretty calm, have a slight opioid-like sensation in body. Not sleepy at all, even though it is past 01:00.

[StateOfRegret]

Conclusion: I slept horribly. Tianeptine didn't seem to offer me any real anxiolysis the first time around. Will be giving it another trial later.

[Syntheso]

Sorry to hear your experience. But - whilst I have read reports of people finding immediate positive effects, I have read that the effects are really meant to take a couple of weeks. I think it works in a similar way to the antagonism - upregulation relationship, which might explain an initial worsening of well-being.

[StateOfRegret]

Oh, I wouldn't exactly say that I had a bad experience. Insomnia and anxiety is everyday stuff for me :-P

[Syntheso]

I trialed Tianeptine 12.5mg three times daily for 18 days (2 weeks 4 days). I had planned to trial further than three weeks, but I could continue no further due to the lack of symptom relief/possibility of Tianeptine causing me to become really depressed.

At first, it seemed to work well, but in retrospect, this was probably the effects of my Sinemet trial still lingering. It seemed to make a useful anxiolytic when taken just before an event, though later on in the trial, there were no consistent effect to determine this. Throughout the trial I had days where felt moderate, great, and awful; the latter particularly towards the end. My visuals appeared the same/worse. There was no consistent effect I could determine from the trial. I must admit there were instances of heavy drinking in the trial which could have been a large influence (although, I have trialed other things with instances of heavy drinking and still found efficacy in a medication).

My conclusion; possible antidepressant / anxiolytic qualities when used acutely. Some apparent immediate positive effects, but not entirely consistent. Chronic use (up to 18 days); negative/inconclusive.