Opiod antagonists?

[onedayillsailagain]

Anyone have any experiences with Naltrexone? Or Naloxone, but I believe the latter is only available intravenously, hence I doubt anyone has tried this for the long-term. If you do have any experience with either of these, how did it help? Apparently Naloxone is pretty ace for DP, but of course comes with practical difficulties.

 

There was an average 30% reduction of symptoms with treatment, as measured by 3 validated dissociation scales. Three patients were very much improved, and 1 patient was much improved with naltrexone treatment. These findings are potentially promising in a highly treatment-refractory disorder for which no treatment guidelines exist and warrant a randomized controlled trial.

An open trial of naltrexone in the treatment of depersonalization disorder.

 

In three of 14 patients, depersonalization symptoms disappeared entirely and seven patients showed a marked improvement. The therapeutic effect of naloxone provides evidence for the role of the endogenous opioid system in the pathogenesis of depersonalization.

Effect of Naloxone therapy on depersonalization: a pilot study.

 

Also Suboxone has been reported to help with DP/DR, but I haven't looked into that.

What I'm interested in is "Amentoflavone", found in SJW and Ginkgo Biloba, which is an antagonist at the Kappa and Delta sites (not sure about the latter). No; this is not a hippie agenda, it's merely because Naltrexone, Naloxone, and Suboxone are particularly hard to get prescribed, thus Amentoflavone would be the easiest way to go. Anyway, you also might want to have a read through this post about Suboxone virtually curing DP.

Though pure Amentoflavone is really expensive and hard to get, I'd thought that perhaps combining high-quality extracts of both SJW and Ginkgo Biloba may have a chance at helping.. Thinking about trying this out myself. I haven't ever tried SJW, so I thought it could be an interesting idea. As for Ginkgo; I've tried your average supermarket brand without any noticeable effects. Turns out that quality and brand really does matter, so it's worth giving another shot. Altogether that would be +/-$40 for a 20 day trial of both with the products I'm considering, so not ridiculously expensive.

Input anyone?

[onedayillsailagain]

Hmm.. apparently SJW may cause cataracts.. Well I guess using NAC eye drops could put that into balance.

[andrewcb]

i was on suboxone which has naloxone and it made me rage really hard, I use to do steroids and I never raged on them but Nalaxone had me wanting to kill somebody, got switched to subutex which is far cheaper and superior imo, didnt have noloxone  and it worked fairly well until I hit the 6 month spot and i was one of the few people who hit rebound and even though it got me through the day(i quitted my job the first day I quitted) it really made me a asshole. naloxone for me is a nono but that is just for me........imo avoid the shit....im fixing to try a trail of 50mg tramadol 3x daily with white gf with extra pulp(works wonders believe me) and I hope this fixes all the issues, the ssri effects I am afraid of because I am a firm believer that hppd and SS have some kind of relation and I had messing with my serotonin. dopamine= pleasure serotonin=trippy but only a true trial will work.........hydrocodone worked wonders for me but took about 5 to 7 days of 60mg, 20mg 3x daily to notice effects and get the high feeling away

[onedayillsailagain]

Thanks Andrew. Bummer about the Naloxone. Have you tried combining buprenorphine with naltrexone instead?
What do you mean by 'white gf with extra pulp'?

Anyway; as an update: I bought Perika SJW and Ginkgold Ginkgo. However it's unlikely that these will contain any amount of Amentoflavone. But I figured what the hey; worth a shot regardless of that. Also, for those interested, I've provided the following links that discuss the merits of Kappa Opioid Receptor Antagonism:
Link 1
Link 2

And my own thread.

And a thread over at DPselfhelp about Nalmefene.

 

I've been thinking about trying Buprenorphine+Naltrexone, however I'd have to completely quit Levetiracetam before doing that.

@@Syntheso KOR antagonism supports your idea of NMDA agonism, which would be a downstream effect of KOR antagonism.

[Syntheso]

@@Syntheso KOR antagonism supports your idea of NMDA agonism, which would be a downstream effect of KOR antagonism.

Great, I'll look into this. 

[Sam93]

I'd love to try Naltrexone myself but unfortunately I don't see how I could possibly get that prescribed.

 

Suboxone on the other hand, I could acquire very easily and is something I'd like to try, although I have no opiate tolerance and the dosages I can get hold of are 2mg to 8mg tablets, and I have no idea what dosages would be appropriate for a none opiate tolerant individual.

 

I spent a while looking into K Opioid Antagonism and it's role in mitigating the symptoms of DP and it seems an interesting, credible theory to me. 

 

It's interesting that Salvia (or Salvinorin A) and Ketamine (Dissociatves) agonise KOR, and antagonising KOR mitigates DP. There's obviously something there! 

[Syntheso]

nvm, read incorrectly!

[onedayillsailagain]

Cheers Syntheso!

Sam:
I'd imagine it would be equally difficult if not more so to get Suboxone prescribed. Acquiring it is of course a different story, and it would be likely that if you can acquire Buprenorphine you can acquire Naltrexone as well. Indeed, dosage is something that would need to be worked out. I've seen some posts about it in one of the links I've mentioned, and as soon as I reread the thread I'll post a direct link here. Apparently with the correct ratio of Buprenorphine/Naltrexone dosage, tolerance can be avoided as well as addiction. Or so I've read in a glance. I'll post that too once I find it again.

Yes I too believe this holds great potential

Anyhow; I'm able to acquire all of the above, so I'll have to quit Keppra first. Also, I'm hoping that the process of acquiring JDtic will go faster than that of Coluracetam. In any case I'm definitely going to try it when possible, so I'll see how that goes. Depending on how long it'll take, I might not even bother with Naltrexone/Naloxone/Suboxone/Buprenorphine. Also, I think Nalmefene might take a while to be available here, so I presume JDtic will be available faster than that.

I'll probably go commando when I do try the JDtic; not sure about interactions etc. Haven't even looked into the studies.
Ohh.. I was going to type more but I typed this 2 hours ago so I forgot. I'll just press post.

[andrewcb]

I took just subutex(buprenorphine) and it helped but I hit rebound at 6 months. You can just tell your sub doc "hey I am broke I would like to be on subutex vs suboxone" and most likely get subutex. Trust me subs are far more addictive than any other opiate and do have a opiate like effect, the first time you take it you will be so fucking high lol. And it is very easy to get here in Dallas I have a doctor who prescribed me subutex instead of suboxone its $250 for the first visit and $150 after that and if you got insurance a script of 45 8mg cost me like 25 bucks. Just find the cheapest doctor and tell them you are coming off of opiates you have been self medicating, suboxone/subutex is such a gimmeck they will give it to anybody who just says they are w/d from opiates so they can make their money. I would get 45 8mg pills and only take 2mg a day so it lasted me a very long time, I went to the doctors twice and told him I was taking the 12mgs but just stockpiled instead and saved me 1000s of dollars. 2mg is a good dosage to avoid the ceiling effect and get the most out of it but either way  after being on it for awhile don't expect just some 7 to 10 day w/d prepare for a whole 90 hangover and up to 2 years to even stop thinking about it, usually people who take suboxone stay on suboxone and claim to be clean, imo just a swap for one drug to another. The drug itself is far more harmful than a lot of opiates even more harmful and addictive then hydrocodones or oxys imo. I had a easier time coming off of hydros and I loved hydros, subutex was far more harder to come off of and I started to hate it because I hit rebound, lost 35 pounds in 2 months, couldn't eat, constipation - no kidding close your eyes here if you don't want to hear this, my shit alone would clog toilets, at least once a week I was that backed up and I hated going to take a shit it seriously hurt lol. Right now I am on tramadol and I experience zero opiate effect, I believe it is from the snri effect of tramadol, wellbutrin use to weaken my hydrocodones to where I couldn't feel them so I am thinking that is what tramadol is doing to itself. I feel speedy as hell off of it and cant sleep at night, I take 90mg of temazepam a day 30mg 3x a day and doesn't even come close to knocking me out anytime of the day lol. Somebody stole my valiums so been abusing my temazepam. I am blabbering now Good Luck!

 

If you just want to read my summary:

avoid subs, they are very very very addictive and can ruin your life. Most people believe you can do a substance for a long time and go through some kind of 1 week w/d and it is over with, its not. after long term use you become dependant and anyone dependant on a drug knows you deal with w/ds for 90 days and takes up to 2 years to get fully recovered. IMO not worth the risk unless you plan on being subs for the rest of your life.

 

O and I mean grapefruit juice, I love me some gfj with my opiates and benzos

[andrewcb]

Also Sam93,

subs are 40 to 70x stronger than morphine if that gives you a good idea of dosage. For a first time user who has had no opiate experience half a mg can get you real high your first time for 12 hours. Also I forgot to mention a lot of people throw up on subs and it is a 24 hour throwing up session. So to any first time sub user I would recommend starting at half a mg to 1mg and don't swallow after you let it sit under your tongue for 10 minutes spit what you got in your mouth out. I don't advise this but I would snort my subutex just because it was easier to do and it has a higher BA through your nose.