OliverW

Try to cut down on the cannabis... I know that someone telling you to stop won't work... You have to want to be clean. But it is something to consider. If your visual stuff doesn't go away and you are still blazin' I would recommend that you give it a week if not a few days to reset your brain. I didn't quit smoking bud after I got the warning signs. Mild HPPD... And my visuals stayed the same and in a subtle way they got worse. Up until an incident, for lack of a better word, an OD on 2C-E, I didn't stop doing anything. But after that massive stupidity, it was a wake-up call to me for sure! I just hope you don't have to hit the bottom to get back on your feet. Unfortunately, a lot of us do, and now 4-5 years later we are stuck with this disorder that may very well be permanent. I am not going to be dishonest and say that my visuals got much better after being clean, but the brain fog and lack of mental clarity has improved for sure. It has even improved since just last week! It is hard to stay away from drugs, I know, but it is a great feeling to wake up and not need something to get normal. I still have to tell myself every morning that I am not going to use today. Be it cannabis or heroin, I still have to tell myself every morning... But things get better and better the longer you stay clean. Being sick, for me anyways, made my HPPD much worse, but it was only temporary... And I wasn't smoking weed. I've never heard of that sort of visual circle stuff... Kinda sounds like migraine aura? Like the fractal type swirls... Are they colored, or translucent? Like can you see through them? I get geometric shapes rarely, but they aren't really circles. More like fractal hexagons made up of smaller triangles. Do you have the "normal" symptoms? Like lack of mental clarity or fluid textures and visual snow as far as visuals? I sincerely hope that things get better for you, and it would be nice if, in a little while, you write your last post giving a check-in and letting us know that things are better and that you don't need to be on this sight anymore. I just hope you have the ability to learn from our mistakes. It is a rare thing, but maybe you can do it?! Good luck, and I hope your symptoms will work out their wiggles and let you be. It might take some clean time, but don't give up!

Down-regulation, in the context in which it was used, means that the brain is compensating, or over compensating, for the over-activity of a certain neurological system. Benzo's do not, under strict adherence to the definition, down-regulate the GABA receptors. In fact, the drugs themselves up-regulate by sensitizing the post-synaptic cleft to GABA within the synapse. Benzo's do this by increasing the frequency at which GABA signals are communicated... In other words, the sedating or inhibitory effects of the GABA system are amplified or increased (Barbiturates and benzos respectively) through interference of the ion pores along the axon (basically the telegraph wire of the nerve cell). Although sedatives (barbs, benzos) up-regulate the GABA system, the brain compensates, or down-regulates, through the up-regulation of glutamate... Glutamate is a major excitatory, or stimulating, receptor system in the human brain. For all intents and purposes for this discussion, it is anti-GABA. Gluatmate along with acetylcholine are responsible for the prioritization and categorization of memory. To simplify things, they are key players in the formation of short term memory, as well as the recollection of long term memories. When GABA, the chief inhibitory transmitter, is up-regulated... This means that glutamate is being activated to compensate for inhibition of nerve signals. Inhibition is the reason people have a hard time with memory formation while on benzos or barbs. It is also the reason that they help with some of the visual symptoms of HPPD, as well as overactive mental issues. I would guess that they decrease visuals by decreasing the communication and complexity of communication between the occipital and parietal lobe. From what I understand, the occipital lobe plays a major roll in receiving information from visual stimuli. The parietal lobe then takes this raw sensory information from the occipital lobe and integrates it... Making sense out of movement, facial expressions, etc. People with lesions of the parietal lobe have hallucinations as a part of their symptoms, other tasks, like interpreting letters and words, become harder as well. I digress... So benzos work at decreasing complex communication between the visual centers of the brain... Doing so, they simplify sensations such as movement... Simpler information creates simpler perception. As you quit taking the benzos... The glutamate systems are so up-regulated that they go out of control... Causing increased visual disturbances and in extreme cases, seizures. Anyways, to answer your question, benzos will temporarily mask the symptoms, but for me anyways, when I quit taking them, my visuals got a lot worse for 7-10 days and they have still not decreased in intensity to the point they were before I was on benzos. So it would seem reasonable to say that they have been detrimental to my recovery in the long run. But this is just anecdotal... I am only one person, not a statistic. Also, the long term WD from benzos could be factoring into the intensity of my visuals. Perhaps they will slowly return back to the point they once were. Either way, it is a short-term benefit vs. long-term benefit/consequence argument. If you can do it without benzos, you are probably going to have a better shot at recovering from your HPPD. Also, sedatives helped my visuals, but they compounded my lack of mental clarity and my inability to form "normal" thought processes and memory. Not to mention they are addictive !

Thanks man! I appreciate the support! And yeah I think you should def. be okay if you just stick to weed... If I didn't have HPPD or if I wasn't an addict I would smoke every day! It just isn't for me anymore... I am still mourning my loss . Anyways, I hope things work out and I am confident that they will! I just hope you aren't back on this forum anytime soon with HPPD... Take it easy and keep your stress under control... It will probably compound your visual snow stuff. Oh and thanks for the avatar compliment! Shiny Chansey all day!!

Oh huh, it would be cool to talk to him and see if there is a correlation between HPPD and borderline specifically. So you were in school when you got yours? How does the school system work up in the UK? Like do they start at age 5? I'm sorry to hear that, it seems like serious abandonment like that threw my whole world off its axis... Especially when your just a little tot and things are happening around you that don't make sense. Abandonment is serious. In my own experiences, the emotional neglect and eventual abandonment of my biological mother was the core issue behind my heroin and ketamine addiction... Until I dealt with that I was a miserable wreck. But seriously, have you seen a therapist for borderline? It is one of those disorders that can pretty much be "cured" through therapy. It will take a while, but I've seen some amazing results! Do you have trouble controlling or even identifying your emotions? Like little things to most people will ruin your whole day... Or like the world is ending! Or like, if you are laughing and question your laughter and you start crying? Just wondering. The major symptom of borderline is an inability to control emotional or social sensation.

Oh and HBB, bpd and borderline are the same thing... Bpd is an acronym. That is crazy that on this one thread there is a bipolar and a borderline!

That is interesting... I have bpd as well. Why do you think that the HPPD would have never happened without the borderline stuff? And I am with you, over time I've come to consider my HPPD as a sort of uniqueness that adds a little spice to my life. I never have to trip again! Because long after the drugs had left my system their effects are still there! Also, I hope you know that borderline can be treated very well with therapy. It is an axis II (personality) disorder, and therapy has shown to help out a lot. I can tell you that in my experience, the therapy has considerably managed my symptoms! I don't even take mood stabilizers (trileptal among others) anymore! It did take a long time, and an awesome therapist, but shit has worked itself out. I still have serious abandonment anxiety but I try to cut it off in the start by keeping myself from getting emotional attachment. But this has advantages and disadvantages... Specifically being lonely :/. From what I understand, bpd arises out of traumatic experiences. The most common being physical or sexual abuse. So I don't think people are born with it, although there is probably a genetic predisposition. And with bpd, HPPD, ADHD, and bipolar II, things are difficult but at least I have a hell of a unique combo! I wonder how prevalent bpd is among those with HPPD, specifically those on this forum. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I relate and there is hope

How far have you gotten with your taper? What specifically is causing your "brick wall"? As for me, I have both visual and mental stuff... It seems like anyone who has it long term, like you said, has the concurrent mental issues. It seems like most of us have both... Maybe some of the admins could start a tally thread. Or poll... I think that is how it is spelled.

Wait I'm still unclear, do you have HPPD already, or are you worried about getting it from cannabis? I didn't mean to be that negative... I was just offering up my perspective. If you don't already have HPPD, I wouldn't worry about getting it from smoking bud... My perspective was that of a person who has had HPPD and has noticed the effects that cannabis has on the already present disorder. I smoked a lot very often for two years before the psychedelics came into the picture... And in my case the weed didn't cause much of anything. I was a little spacey but that was because I was high all the time... Haha so no long term consequences for me. Being paranoid about getting HPPD from bud won't do anything good... And just because some of us have offered up our perspectives, albeit negative perspectives, doesn't mean you have to change your life or your behaviors. You are the only one who can make your own decisions, and I am offering up my view on things with sincerity and good intentions. I can only speak for myself, but it seems reasonable that a lot of us here on this board are fairly resentful towards our drug exploits... If it brought us here, and gave us HPPD, then it seems realistic to say that we have had some negative experiences in relationship to drugs, specifically psychedelics. Although I am resentful, I also try not to look at the past with connotations of shame or guilt... And I try to minimize the resentfulness as much as possible. I apologize for abandoning "I statements", but it seems like in this case it is a fair to assume that we all had some negative consequences due to our drug experiences. A lot of the weed around these days is somewhat psychedelic... I have had the fortune of living very close to the stateside epicenter of cannabis cultivation and consumption, Cali, and a lot of the bud strains and products are quite good... I would go so far as to say that they are threshold psychedelics. So if you do smoke, I would advise against chronic use as well as excessive use when you do partake. But even if you do things at maximum capacity I highly doubt you would develop HPPD. Even when I had the warning signs of mild HPPD, my cannabis use (as well as opiates and almost everything else other than hallucinogens) didn't seem to compound things all that much. At least not in the long term. But when my symptoms started to increase due to dabbling yet again in psychedelics, bud became a major irritant. Just something to think about. Again, your decisions are your decisions... I am sorry if some of the posts on here, mine included, increased your paranoia (and therefor your anxiety), but keep in mind that I say everything out of personal experience. Everyone is unique, so I don't expect my situation to be very relevant to you... But at the same time, we all have a lot of the same biology.

Very true. Psychedelic tolerance builds up faster than any other drug in my experience... But the tolerance that was built up goes away pretty quick. The only way to habitually trip is to switch up the substances. PEA's vs. triptamines... They both exhibit cross tolerance with one another, but the tolerance doesn't build up as quick as just doing one chemical... It seems like LSD tolerance increases the fastest... MDMA the slowest, and booms, mescaline, and 2C's are somewhere in between.

Yeah, if I had the strength to say no I wouldn't have had to change my friends... But I just don't. In my case, I had to leave that lifestyle all together. And you are right, if I really had good friends they would be supportive of my recovery. But for me, my "friends" weren't good friends at all. I have some new people I surround myself with, but not as many as I would like. In my case, all my "friends" were junkies. I have tried putting myself into that atmosphere and it was close to a disaster. I just can't be around that shit... Maybe in the future I will have more willpower, but I don't see it happening any time soon. I understand that it works for you, and I'm happy you weren't forced into abandoning your life and your friends. For me it has been different... I am in early recovery, I haven't even been clean for a year, and I just can't be around heroin. It is lonely sometimes but everyone is lonely so at least I know I'm not alone. And as far as coping with stress and life, I am with you 100%... I have been lucky enough to get hundreds of hours of therapy... CBT is amazing! I am still prone to negative emotions, but not as bad as I was. I am bipolar and borderline personality (CBT has been shown to treat BPD as it is an axis II disorder, i.e. personality disorder) so it is hard for me to control emotion... It is hard to even comprehend the emotion I am feeling and put a name to it! But I'm working on it. I am not manic-depressive (Bipolar I), so I don't get manic fortunately... But I get depression spells. Other than ADHD meds I have gotten off all medications... Mood stabilizers, anti-psychotics, SSRI's, etc. And it has it's ups and downs for sure. But through therapy I have been learning to manage my moods and emotions. I use a lot of the tools you mentioned. I don't get suicidal all that often anymore... Which is HUGE for me. I used to try and intentionally OD almost every month. I still get pretty blue sometimes, but I don't usually want to end my life. And the upside to not being on meds is that, when I'm really down, I don't have enough energy to get out of bed let alone go through with a suicide attempt... And now that I'm clean I don't have the almost effortless option of OD. If there is hope for me to get better, I think there is hope for anyone. Oh and about the music: That is way cool man. If you are into improv' I'm sure you are a jazz guy. Yeah hit me up with your sound cloud info! I love jazz... Always wanted to learn to play the clarinet or the sax! That is pretty unique. Not a lot of people are into jazz anymore. I'm all about the improv! I've been playing mandolin for a while... Most of my life actually. Love the guitar, I'm OK at the banjo, but the mandolin is my jam! A major tool I use to cope is playing music and at least attempting to write my own stuff (not so great but working on it!) PM me, I'm down to talk music!

Be careful when getting of the kpin... Or any benzo for that matter. In my experience, barbiturates (phenobarbital) worked better to alleviate the visuals. It didn't cause "recovery" by any means... And I opted to get off of it because my mental issues were compounded by the drug. Short term memory went down the drain... So I'm off of it now, and to be honest, visual stuff is worse than before I was on it. Phenobarbital specifically has a very long half life, and as a consequence, it takes a long time do get through the post acute withdrawal... So I am struggling with anxiety and bad visuals. Some days it is better than others, but I can expect to feel this way for a few months if not an entire year! And yes, it by no means "cures" anything... It mostly masks the symptoms. It made reading easier, and other than intensified brain fog type stuff, it really helped. So if anyone is dead set on using anxiolytics... Barbiturates are the way to go. Other than a higher risk for OD, they are much better in the long run! Just be careful about coming off this stuff... Seizures happen for sure... I've been lucky enough to have a few of them... And I agree with Jay1... At least wait a year. Also, don't forget about their addictive properties! That is a major reason I quit that stuff!

Musician, huh? What instruments do you play? I know what you mean, I have had to change all my friends and I am planning to move out of state and away from my hometown sometime in the next few months. It is good to hear that you are getting some support and feedback from this forum. I know I am... I was pretty much in panic attack mode when I joined up and made my first post. Just in the last week or so of being a member I have really gotten a lot of comfort. Maybe not as much hope as I would like, but I am trying to be realistic so I'm cool with it for now. Oh yeah, there is no way to explain the K-hole... Just like there is no way to describe the taste of ketamine. It is some truly bizarre stuff. Good luck with the symptoms man! I hope things work out. It seems like you should have a good chance of things getting better. I can only speak for myself, so IDK... If your visuals are not too disruptive that is a good thing, a very good thing. Personally, some days I think the visuals are worse than the mental, and other days I feel otherwise.

Oh you are very welcome, and thanks for being so open. I just couldn't help but get upset just because I was worried that your input might inspire self-destructive behaviors. You are right, barbiturates are very uncommon these days. Specifically due to what you were communicating, that benzos themselves are not very toxic... Whereas the LD50 is relatively low for barbs. I was actually prescribed phenobarbital for my HPPD. It helped with the visuals a good deal, but in the long run, I was too worried about abusing them because I am a recovering addict. Also, as it was building up in my system (half life of 2-5 days if I remember right), my brain fog and lack of mental clarity due to HPPD was compounded. By the phenobarbital itself. Boogres, I should have clarified... My benzo use wasn't all that recreational up until the last few months. I would take one to two bars a day for anxiety. But the tolerance builds up really fast. My acute WD lasted just over a week... As in getting the pre-seizure jerks and the inability to perceive a normal body temperature. Also, keep in mind that I did a medical detox... I was slowly tapered and even then, I was on phenobarbital for almost two months after in an order to treat my HPPD. Even after a medical detox, PAWS continued for months and even up until now, however, at the one week mark the methadone withdrawal began to overpower the benzo-like symptoms. Don't get me wrong... I was and am going through WD, however, considering the hell I have been through it doesn't bother me all that much. Anyways, I am glad we had some proactive communication going on! I respect your opinion and your openness... I just saw a potential negative influence on some of the members of this fantastic forum. Also, if you are interested in pharmacology concerning anything, feel free to message me. I have my BS in chemistry and am currently in grad school doing some research with ties into neurochemistry... If you ever have a quick question feel free to ask... I'm not an encyclopedia but I could probably point you in the right direction as far as reliable information and research sources.

Benzos and barbiturates sensitize the GABA receptor through ionic, voltage gated disturbance. Both classes work on the chloride/calcium ion channels. In doing so, they increase the amount of GABA released into the synapse, as well as increasing the sensitivity of the post synaptic cleft. GABA is the chief inhibitory transmitter and it is trough sensitization of GABA that benzos and barbs have efficacy at relieving anxiety and preventing seizures. It is true that benzos have a high LD50, however, I would advise anyone reading this thread that this is a case of extreme tolerance... It isn't a great idea to post how hard it is to die off of a drug! Even if it is true... I could see a teenager reading this and coming to the conclusion that he/she could raid moms medicine cabinet and swallow all the Xanax or whatever they could find. Keep in mind that, although death through respiratory depression is fairly uncommon... Asphyxiation is highly possible, in particular when combined with alcohol or any other drug for that matter. So please, anyone reading this, keep in mind that high doses of benzos CAN easily cause suffocation on ones own vomit! And yes it is a lot easier to get seizures from WD than this thread is making it out to be. As far as your research into the lack of lethal WD, I have some terrifying anecdotal experience on the subject. If I had not been rushed to the hospital while I was having my seizure, I would not be writing this post right now... I wouldn't be alive right now. I was WDing from a large dose (60mg alprazolam/daily to maintain normal)... And had two seizures in the 15 minutes it took to get me to the ER. After getting out of the hospital, I checked myself into detox for both benzo and methadone WD (340mg methadone/day). The benzo WD lasted about a week and the next month I was going through the suicidal agony of opiate WD. In my experience, the benzo WD was not all that uncomfy... Nothing compared to acute opiate withdrawal. I would take the 7 days of Xanax withdrawal over 3 days of heroin WD any day! Not to mention a month of agony due to the methadone. What I am trying to say is, benzo and barbiturate withdrawal is very lethal. It doesn't take a decade to be at risk for seizure! All it took for me was about 2 years... And I am pretty sure it would only take a few weeks if you were using large amounts. So just be careful man, especially if you run out of Xanax or if you try to detox at home. It will kill you. I don't expect you to believe me, but I just hope you don't have to learn the hard way. I did, and I almost lost my life because of it. I say this with all my respect and good intentions. -Oliver

Damn... Good point though G.S. The past is history, the future is a mystery, but now is a gift... That's why they call it the present- Kungfu Panda! Haha... I wouldn't say my brain is resilient. After just a few months of tripping I got the warning signs for sure. Pretty much full blown HPPD even though I don't admit it. What I did wrong was that I ignored the symptoms. I didn't take a lot of time between trips (sometimes not even 24 hours) so I just figured it was residual effects. Then I quit for a while and noticed that it wasn't going away... Even after that I decided to trip again. And not even trip, lick my damn gloves not knowing the amount of 2C-E on the nitrile. So if anything I *had a resilient brain, but that resiliency only allowed me to use to greater excess... So maybe it is something to consider... I know that if I hadn't gotten so lucky in the first place, I would have continued to use until I was fucked regardless. But I was a very impulse driven user... No consequences could deter me from my DOC or any drug for that matter. All I am trying to say is that, for me anyways, it didn't matter how lucky I was with my HPPD... Either way I would have continued to use, most likely, untill I got HPPD anyways. On that subject, if I didn't go through treatment I would probably still be tripping and still sticking a needle in my arm.

Glad to hear you are figuring things out. One thing caught my attention... You say you are a worrier and a hypochondriac... And then you said your worrying comes from not liking genetic diseases? I would appreciate a clarification on that one. To me it sounded like a judgment or excuse for your anxiety. I know now that my anxiety came from something much deeper than worries or troubles of specific things. Through therapy (CBT) I was able to recognize the source of my anxiety through identifying traumatic situations. But it is more than that. We all have major trauma in one way or another (at least most of us), but it isn't the trauma that causes anxiety, addiction, depression, etc. It is the trauma driven BELIEF about ourselves or the world around us that drives these negative behaviors. Beliefs -> Feelings -> Thoughts=Behaviors. The behaviors and feelings being, for example, drug abuse and anxiety. Just something to think about.

HPPD has come from a long and extensive history of hallucinogen use, however, a single experience with a MASSIVE dose of 2C-E has caused my symptoms to get much worse. Those 2C's don't mess around. Granted, I had the warning signs and continued to trip... But I feel like if I didn't have the 2C-E experience, I would be much more functional and my visuals would be less intense. I have heard that people get it from a small number of trips... And it breaks my heart to see that some of you were fairly responsible with your use, just to get HPPD. I have probably tripped close to a thousand times on tons of different things, so it makes me feel lucky that I didn't end up institutionalized. "Many members have gotten HPPD after a single trip."... God that is just not fair. I can't imagine the anger... Getting a potentially lifelong disorder from a single experimentation?! What the hell. If anything I would be angry that I couldn't do psychedelics again! Just one time?! I wasn't even near ready at the 100th time rolling or frying or hitting the K hole... I am so sorry for you guys... I just don't know what to say.

So I'm confused... Are you worried about getting HPPD from blazing? Or do you already have it? When I smoked cannabis after my HPPD hit, it did intensify my condition, but not to the point of me quitting. But that is probably because I'm an addict. Also, I was always on an opiate when I smoked weed so perhaps my situation won't apply. On the other hand, I have been clean off everything including cannabis for about 6 months and things have not gotten much better. In fact, I don't think things have gotten better at all. What would you get out of smoking weed? I have ADHD as well, and bud will calm me down and help me focus... But the consequences outweigh the benefits, for me anyways. It really depends on your symptoms and their intensity. My advice... Don't do it. I know telling someone to "just stop" doesn't work, I know. But I urge you to acknowledge the possible consequences, while not kidding yourself about being realistic. It really just depends how much you want to and how much you would get out of it. Perhaps you have the mentality that one time wouldn't hurt, and perhaps it wont. But everything starts out with "just one more time". I recognize how addiction can be, and if I started smoking weed again I would probably become addicted to that. (I never had a problem with it in the past, but after going through treatment for my heroin addiction I don't think it would be a good idea to start) There, now you have a junkies perspective. To abstain from a behavior that could be harmful or addictive. Go figure.

Well a lot of different drugs are hydrophobic, or soluble in lipids... A classic example is THC... I know that THC carboxylates in the glial cells so I don't see how PCP would remain stored in your brain unmetabolized. I will have to look that up when I get a chance. Did you hear about that from a reliable source? And yeah there is no limit to the insanity of a datura experience. No myths and no truths, it just is. That shit grows everywhere around my town... Like on lawns and in gardens. It is a pretty hardy plant. There is a canyon in Moab called "Moonflower Canyon" specifically named after datura. But no one abuses it because it is so dysphoric as well as so deadly.

ACO? Like 4-AcO-DMT? Indian K huh? Was it spicy ?

Salt Lake City haha! It is this city next to a stagnant saltwater lake. Utah... Gotta love it, another day in paradise. Yeah the stutter is really something else, I'm glad I'm not the only one... How long did you have yours? Just curious... And I was wondering where the ket comes from in the UK, do you know?

I'm glad you are trying to stay clean! I hate to sound like a broken record, but it is cornerstone to recovering and healing, not only from HPPD, but for many different psychological disorders. It is good to see someone realizing the warning signs and taking them seriously. I wish I would have stopped when I got my warning signs... I didn't and now I have a quite severe case. I hope you keep this mentality, you sound like you are on the right track. Just try not to forget the humility and whatnot. As far as light sensitivity, this is a major symptom for me. Do things appear bright under artificial lighting? Like colors? How long have you been clean? It sounds like a hopeful case to me, so be thankful your visuals aren't to the point where they interfere with everyday life... I am happy for you, it is a blessing not to have gotten the mental issues that a lot of us have, me included. Back to the light sensitivity subject, do you get headaches? For me, apart from fatigue and visual strain, headaches are a major issue in respect to light sensitivity. Do you wear glasses? I talked to my optometrist and got prescribed my same lenses with photosensitive tint as well as polarization... Polarized glasses (not sunglasses) are fairly uncommon, so before you drop the money for a pair, I would try sunglasses with polarized lenses. I have a vertical astigmatism, and my visuals are much worse when I'm not wearing glasses. Like I said, your symptoms sound pretty minor... Which is a good sign. I've known some people with minor visual stuff, and over months and years, it has improved dramatically... But to get a better idea it would be good to know how long it has been. Maybe you wrote it so pardon me if I didn't catch it. MDMA itself is synthetic... So methoxetamine wouldn't be "synthetic MDMA". I think you are thinking of methylone... A pseudo-analogue of MDMA. In fact, methoxetamine is an arylcyclohexylamine... Similar to K. I believe it's structure is quite similar, if I remember right, it is lacking the chlorine substitute on the phenyl ring. I don't know how it is different in terms of effects, so it would be cool if you explained the differences and similarities... Or maybe your reactions to it as well as ket... I haven't done it, and I don't plan to, but I am curious as to what it does. Thanks, and I hope I could help

That is pretty crazy you were able to talk while tripping on salvia... You are so right, it is not of this world. In the start of my experience I was sitting in the back of a car trying to yell at the kids in the front seat to stop the vehicle... I thought I was slipping out the cracks between the door because I couldn't move fast enough to keep up with the car... Forgot I had taken a drug, forgot who I was, etc. Horrid horrid experience. And yeah datura is god awful... One particular instance me and a friend decided to go fishing... So we went to the lake for a few hours, didn't catch anything, then realized we never left the house! I could imagine people falling off ledges, walking in front of traffic, etc. Completely reckless drug, that one is. I don't really think anything is stored in the brain... But I could be wrong. There are metabolic structures in the brain called glial cells that metabolize anything and everything in the cerebrospinal fluid and in the brain tissue itself. I think it isn't the chemicals lingering in our brains that causes problems, it is the up-regulation, blow out of receptor systems, physiological damage (meth), lost signals, irregular signals, etc. that the drugs have caused while doing their thing... It is interesting to me that, on the topic of this thread, most if not all posts had MDMA or e pills involved... It is interesting that only a small percentage of users exhibit HPPD... So it seems like it can be deduced that genetic and epigenetic factors influence the structural integrity of brain cells and neurotransmitter systems... I really wish this condition was better understood, but it seems like all the common ground we find could be an indicator of the type of changes or damage that causes HPPD.

Haha epigenetics is so interesting! I love that you mentioned that. I have been thinking a lot lately about all the genes I have turned off and all the activated genes that my ancestors have passed on. I would love to do some research in the realm of epigenetics and maybe try find a correlation between psychological disorders among other physiological diseases. Yeah I will take it as it comes and see whether or not a med would help me depending on my progress. I really appreciate how open you are to conflicting , and thanks for the input. I don't think I will bring up any meds with my doctor in the near future, but I'm not ruling anything out for sure. If things stay the way they are I think I will have to do something... Even looking at things as being a gift and trying not to focus on the negativity (thanks Jay1!), HPPD still makes it hard for me to function day to day, let alone situations that require my full concentration and attention. I really don't subscribe to the whole complete abstinence thing as far as meds go, but I figure, if I can manage without them then that would be great... I'm just taking things a day at a time right now.

Oh IMO, ket and salvia are entirely different, although they both force an OBE. Salvia is much much much more uncomfortable. For me, K gently took me away from my body whereas salvia ripped me into little strips, peeled my throat like a banana, and sucked me into some twisted space through a perceived amplification of gravity. I don't know anyone who has had a full blown salvia experience and decided to do it again. No good.And datura... proper spelling... is in its own little realm with all the other deliriants... Not dissociative and not psychedelic. I take what I said back, PCP wasn't my worst experience, datura was... For anyone who is interested in deliriants... Don't do it! I don't expect anyone to take my word for it, but they are not fun at all... Let alone the serious risk of death from OD.