artvandelay Posted February 20, 2012 Report Posted February 20, 2012 Christmas day last year I tried ketamine at a friends house and noticed that afterwards I would begin to see things morphing on walls. It was very mild and it would only really bother me when I was tired or looked for it. For the next month and a half i continued to binge drink and even did K again and the symptoms did not get any worse. It was only then that I decided to look up it up online and came across HPPD. It was then that I began to stress out about the other symptoms and how people have had to live with this for years without it getting significantly better. My anxiety became increasingly worse and I got to the point where I could not enjoy drinking because I was stressing worrying about the other symptoms. One night when drinking I noticed what I can only describe as small grid like lines in my vision and sure enough when I awoke they were still there. It lasted for about a week and I was on the verge of having a panic attack at work. Oddly enough the day after drinking it went away although my symptoms were heightened dramatically when drunk. I had stayed sober for the next three weeks but I have been unable to go long periods of time without excessive worrying about it and eventually the lines have come back. Last weekend I drank and my symptoms were really bad when drunk. Also I noticed when reading yesterday that words would start to bend and twist which gave me a lot more anxiety. I know that I can attribute my HPPD getting worse to stress and anxiety as I have been sober from all drugs except alcohol for two months and am not starting up again soon. I am seeing a psychiatrist a week from today and hopefully he will prescribe me something to deal with the anxiety and stress. I guess the purpose of this thread is to try and get some clarity into how other people suffering from this are able to cope with the anxiety and stress that comes with these visuals. The times when I don't think about it, the visuals hardly affect me at all but overall it is having a significant effect on my life. If i could somehow alter my way of thinking and accept and embrace it I think I would be get better over time but so far I have not been able to do so.
John Smith Posted February 20, 2012 Report Posted February 20, 2012 Don't go to a psychiatrist, you dont need benzos. My shit is a lot more fucked up than yours and i cope fine. Don't worry about it, leave the drink too, at least for a while, you should be fine after a few weeks...and lay off the hard drugs, or chances are youll become a regular here...just try to ignore the disturbances, you dont have many symptoms, the only thing keeping them from going away is you by being so anxious.
artvandelay Posted February 20, 2012 Author Report Posted February 20, 2012 I was just thinking I could get something to help cope with the constant stress and worry from it.... how exactly to mange to cope so well even with such extreme visuals?
David S. Kozin Posted February 20, 2012 Report Posted February 20, 2012 Artvandelay, I WANT TO STATE THAT THIS IS AN EXHAUSTIVE ANSWER AND IS ALSO A GENERAL ONE NOT INTENDED TO GIVE YOU THIS MUCH ABOUT IT, BUT IT COULD HELP OTHERS AS WELL You began experiencing mild visual disturbances after using ketamine followed by binge drinking and more ketamine resulting in much more severe visual disturbances. The vision problems were accompanied with increased anxiety after reading about the potential life-time course of HPPD. You associate your increased anxiety with discovery of the disorder and also are concerned with coping with persistent anxiety/stress and constant worrying about the symptoms. </p> The first question is to look at your drinking, which you state was binge drinking for a month and a half. Have you always had problems managing your alcohol? Having month long and beyond binge drinking episodes is likely to result in dependence on alcohol that is not that long lasting like a alcoholic of 10 years, but will cause anxiety and problems. Your body has adjusted to receiving the alcohol and any time you are not drinking to match its expectations you will experience heightened anxiety and stress and often depression that accompanies Alcohol Dependence. Alcohol abuse can heighten your symptoms, and I expect that you are now concerned with your drinking which is leading to a overall state of depression. The way alcohol is affecting you and other areas of your life will cause stress and you have visuals, which once were manageable now occupying your mind constantly. What you say next should help you see part of the problem: I know that I can attribute my HPPD getting worse to stress and anxiety as I have been sober from all drugs except alcohol for two months and am not starting up again soon. You have not been sober for two months; you have been drinking. You started as a binge drinker so I am assuming you are not referring to a glass of wine in the evening, so you are probably drinking relatively heavily when you do drink (congrats on the three weeks!). You can not be sure your HPPD is worse as a result of stress and anxiety alone, but the continued dependence on alcohol and also the stress and anxiety associated with this. (Pay attention to what you said as well, which is you do not plan on starting up again soon. This is much different than stating I have sworn off all substances and intend on living my life in sobriety. When I hear again soon any addict who realizes they are one knows that this really translates to "I want to and will probably do them again, but maybe I don't want to but I can't imagine life without ever having a k-hole again I am not being harsh, but being honest with you. I am an addict (I once stayed on ketamine for 3 weeks straight, waking up with it and sleeping to it, so I know ketamine's draw) and I am an alcoholic in recovery, and I have worked for 1 year almost every day listening to 5 new stories about a person's drug use, plans to not use, and how it affects them while working in an inpatient detox hospital where I was there point of contact and read charts and heard their secrets. If I didn't care about your health I would gloss this over and tell you that you are fine. Alcohol Dependence almost killed me, but I found that I was abusing alcohol only when I was not appropriately medicated to manage severe anxiety and lacked a support system. I have not had a drink in 5 months and feel great, (before that when I relapsed for a few weeks I was on a year without a single drink) but last time I remember sliding into alcohol abuse for even a few months I was experiencing what you are stating and making poor decisions Next key point, by your description you can stop using alcohol and I would recommend you do so. Why, you state that in your three weeks of sobriety your symptoms were less, but you do have remaining anxiety and worried about HPPD and perhaps other issues and returned back to alcohol, which resulted in your symptoms worsening. It is a simple causal relationship: <u>Every time you drink you have an increase in problems with HPPD</u>. Your concern is that knowing alcohol will make your symptoms worse, but perhaps you can drink through the anxiety (I put down 3 bottles of wine in a few hours and HPPD was least of my worries at the time.) and you are looking for something to help you besides alcohol. There are options, and the best would be as Boogres said and drug-free methods to cope. That might mean looking at why you were binging in the first place or looking at lifestyle changes. But, if you drink again you do so knowing it has one effect that is persistent: Your HPPD is worse. Remember: Members like Boogres and countless others experience very severe visual symptoms, many have anxiety, depression, depersonalization and derealization. They will report you can manage HPPD and live an excellent standard of life despite your visual symptoms and <strong>THEY ARE CORRECT</strong>. I know of people in every profession with the exception of jet pilot who has HPPD and manages without thinking about it for days despite it being present. However, In these early stages most of us are preoccupied about the disorder and how can this get better? I can tell you that the visual snow alone from my HPPD, left untreated, makes it impossible for me to see at night and my night vision is reduced to a few feet. I cannot recognize people's faces who stand in front of me in the dark without any treatment. I would not be able to drive, and did not until I finally was prescribed klonopin which reduced the static by 75% and I thought it was a miracle. I have been on a high dose of klonopin for 10 years and looking back I can say it is also the drug that caused me the most problems in my life. I am unable to get off of klonopin without at least 6month to a year to taper. If I am without my Klonopin, the withdrawal is so bad that I would be willing to drive 24 hours to just get a half days worth. I would be willing to pay an entire pay check for 1 days worth of pills to stop the withdrawal, which is nothing short of worse than hell and at worst could result in a seizure that kills me. </div> So, what do you do? You quit drinking because you have proven it only makes HPPD worse. You also quit drinking because you have the ability to now, and if you let this continue your life will get much worse. Also, if you have never taken klonopin, valium, or xanax before and take it with alcohol you could possibly black out and die in a car accident. I little startling, but I have heard it too many times. Although it does not seem like it now, you will find a way to cope with your symptoms and focus on ways to improve your life. I spent 2 years doing nothing but read about and think about HPPD, but because I was doing it for a productive reason I could say that I never was bothered by the other 10 or so symptoms. It took my friends to support me and believe me, and my case is unique that I found talking about it to anyone who would listen was a way to deal with it. I would say outloud, "Go to hell stupid trails" and "F-uc-K you damn purple light all over the place, you think you are going to win, you have nothing." People would ask me about it and watch me yell at space and find it interesting (I was in college and a liberal drug using one at the time, so this was not that abnormal). I created hppdonline.com, and found that HPPD became the driving force and my passion in life. I turned it around to become my reason for most my main goals. HPPD, it is nothing, and the klonopin does nothing now but keep me from withdrawing and it has no affect on improving my life. It is just preventing hell. So, I am upset that HPPD led to my dependence on klonopin at high doses and for what I will see as an upcoming battle.</div> If you speak to anyone and ask them how they felt about their HPPD in the first months to year (depending on how their life and how they got the disorder) experienced it, <u>despite all of their bold talk</u> (well-intentioned, but we forget what it was like early on which should be a GOOD SIGN FOR YOU) about just accepting it and it is not that big of a deal you probably think they are lying or bragging. No, they just forgot that they once were just like you. if you look back at the web site history I can find them begging for help, asking for a magic pill, or praying it will end. I did it, I know almost everyone has. Then at some time as your life improves without drug abuse, you will one day suddenly realize you didn't think about HPPD all day. Right now you think I am nuts for saying it, and think Boogres is nuts for saying you can handle it without medications, but I hear the following all the time: "You were right, the visuals no longer bothered me and I didn't even realize that happened. I still see them, but I haven't been bothered by them," However, if you are anxious/etc then we tend to return to focus on them. I can tell you that HPPD won't kill you. The worst part about HPPD is not the visual symptoms, but the way we experience them. If we are anxious about them, then they are distressful. When we are too busy having sex or playing a sport everyone will tell you that during sex or a kickboxing match they were not anxious about their visuals. However, if you are sitting around staring at a wall you have all the time in the world to be anxious about them. See your psychiatrist, you have anxiety issues that should be evaluated as well and if you do get a benzo, read the bezo forum on this site and be warned of what they can do, and take lowest possible dose, and stop every once in a while with your doctor. You'll make it, I have no doubt. At least with eventually dealing with your HPPD. (Now, other parts like Depersonalization and other disorders like anxiety and depression I can't say, but with exception of DP they are treatable but take time.) < I wish you all the best, if I was wrong about any part of the alcohol use/etc you can correct me, but I am putting your story in a general category and without talking to you making an assessment based on a lot of experience and the most likely answer.</div> All my best wishes, David
artvandelay Posted February 20, 2012 Author Report Posted February 20, 2012 I would just like to thank you for taking time to write such a descriptive and detailed response. Your are correct about almost everything....I have been drinking alcohol on average 2/3 times a week for the last 4 years. My dependence on it can be put down to the anxiety I get in social situations and I do find it very hard to find other methods to relax besides drinking. I quit smoking almost six months ago and almost went back to it when abstaining from alcohol as well as the added anxiety of HPPD. However besides drinking I have only done other drugs a handful of times and only done K twice in my life. I am 100% committed to stopping all drugs... abstaining from alcohol is going to be a massive challenge but like you said I may need to alter my lifestyle to make it more tolerable. My anxiety got worse after dwelling on people saying that their HPPD has never subsided so it's good to hear positive reinforcement that it gets easier to deal with over time. If you have any ideas on how I can manage stress besides resorting to drugs then that would also be beneficial thanks again
John Smith Posted February 20, 2012 Report Posted February 20, 2012 You must also remember that those who do get better have no reason for coming on this website, and I have read numerous cases of people who do recover normal perception. It does get better, it just takes time. The worst thing you can do is to prolong it, i cant even begin to describe how much worse continued drinking and smoking made it for me. Just stop man, from what you describe you dont have many of the symptoms, if theyre not there, dont worry about it, youll get better. IM gettin better, you will too.
David S. Kozin Posted February 20, 2012 Report Posted February 20, 2012 Boogres makes one of the most important points to new members and deserves repeating: You must also remember that those who do get better have no reason for coming on this website (or coming back, leaving, etc.) Nothing is more satisfying than getting a private e-mail that says, "Hey David, sorry I am no longer on the web site. But I think it is doing more harm than good at this point, I can handle my hppd and I don't want to focus on it." No need to say sorry, but often people usually do. Nobody makes money off the web site, so if HPPD was cured then I would be as happy as the rest of you. Most people have anxiety about HPPD because they have it and nobody believes them, they are afraid to tell their spouse, they feel alone, and also don't underestimate a feeling of guilt (I did this to myself, why did I take that last pill/dose/etc?). I don't have the exact statistics, but my experience is that the more drugs a person has done the better they handle HPPD. Rationale: If you took LSD only two times and get HPPD it is easy to beat yourself up over the decision and consequence over just experimenting. Whereas my case, I am lucky I didn't die from drug use. HPPD acted as a set of breaks. I think one of my tricks is that I believe I am lucky HPPD is all I have. I shouldn't be alive and I never got arrested. The worst cases to overcome are those individuals who were dosed by someone else without them knowing and got HPPD.
1998 Posted February 20, 2012 Report Posted February 20, 2012 '' I am unable to get off of klonopin without at least 6month to a year to taper. If I am without my Klonopin, the withdrawal is so bad that I would be willing to drive 24 hours to just get a half days worth. I would be willing to pay an entire pay check for 1 days worth of pills to stop the withdrawal, which is nothing short of worse than hell and at worst could result in a seizure that kills me.'' Same here. They tried taking me off klonopin and even putting me on a dose of adavan in the hospital. My BP shot so high the nurse rushed in there, gave me klonopin and said dam your body really needs this stuff. It's so hard to put life on hold and just sit at home going through wd's when you have bills to pay, Take care all!
rollingregret Posted February 26, 2012 Report Posted February 26, 2012 However, In these early stages most of us are preoccupied about the disorder and how can this get better? I can tell you that the visual snow alone from my HPPD, left untreated, makes it impossible for me to see at night and my night vision is reduced to a few feet. I cannot recognize people's faces who stand in front of me in the dark without any treatment. I would not be able to drive, and did not until I finally was prescribed klonopin which reduced the static by 75% and I thought it was a miracle. I have been on a high dose of klonopin for 10 years and looking back I can say it is also the drug that caused me the most problems in my life. I am unable to get off of klonopin without at least 6month to a year to taper. If I am without my Klonopin, the withdrawal is so bad that I would be willing to drive 24 hours to just get a half days worth. I would be willing to pay an entire pay check for 1 days worth of pills to stop the withdrawal, which is nothing short of worse than hell and at worst could result in a seizure that kills me. David, how do you know if cutting your klonopin is withdrawal vs HPPD not being treated? If you have time, could you shed light on my current problem : http://hppdonline.com/index.php?/topic/578-peoples-benzo-experiences/page__st__40 Artvandelay, first of all, I LOL'd when I read your name. At least you've still got your sense of humour. I can tell you this, it is absolutely true that when you've accepted that you see things differently and that's the way it's going to be, and I mean TRULY accept it, they WILL stop bothering you. The anxiety will fade if you stop drinking. It's not surprising at all that you have anxiety right now (or when you posted). It will fade. As for having HPPD at the level you do, I promise you, if you don't have any really physically debilitating symptoms and it's more worry-based, you are in a good territory, it's completely up to you. I've had HPPD since 2006 and although I am on clonazepam (trying to taper, not going so well), it is more for the head pressure and dizziness and other physical things that prevent me from living a normal life. Otherwise I have gotten completely used to the visuals and I do not spend any time staring at things to see whether they will move. I don't remember what a straight line looks like, and that's ok (T-shirt slogan?). Just take care of your health, exercise a lot and know that you will heal. Try not to expect it each day, that's counterproductive. Just concentrate on other things and live healthy. You'll be as good as new soon. RR
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