Dopamine and Acetylcholine

[Ghormeh Sabzi]

So we know that dopamine may have a role to play due to the Sinemet success stories, although exactly why this is remains unclear. Perhaps we are not producing enough of it.

If that is the case, is it possible that we are not producing enough acetylcholine, as well? Have a look at some of the symptoms: http://www.hands2health.com/Acetylcholine.pdf

I know with Parkinson's you want to lower acetylcholine - however, our condition is clearly different from PD, demonstrated by the improvement of symptoms from benzodiazepines and anticonsulvants, for example.

Trying to understand the condition, thinking out loud, any thoughts would be welcome.

[David S. Kozin]

Anticholinergic like scopolamine and the deliriants (Datura, no thanks) exacerbate symptoms and one HPPD individual came up with a mechanism related to ACh-related process, but this was some time ago and I submitted it to Dr. Abraham and signed a NDA about the details of how. Piracetam was a thought to help with HPPD, but my personal experience was no-change but it was hardly controlled experience. Piracetam was administered at our Hospital for abnormal and PTSD-related night terrors and I would imagine with success.

ACh is more likely to play a role of "just another switch" on our gates and limiters that can make things worse if the dial turned up. Nicotine is interesting to think about in the picture, but overall the major players you have named.

(I'm also interested in ACh because of a test I was considering as a marker for HPPD, but that has to be left alone for the time.)

Best,

David

[VisualDude]

Recently a member in a DP forum reported using Benztropine (anticholinergic) to treat his DR and has been doing so for 20 years. In this case the individual is taking Pimozide (anti-psychotic) for Tourette’s – and this med specifically causes the DR. Also, he takes Anafranil (a tricyclic antidepressant) for OCD.

　

This prompted a search and finding articles such as this:

Neuroleptic [antipsychotic/anti-dopamine] effects in Tourette syndrome predict dopamine excess and acetylcholine deficiency – http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/6128037

"Tourette syndrome (TS) may be characterized by relatively excessive CNS dopamine activity and by relatively deficient CNS acetylcholine activity"

I thought this very interesting in that there is a similarity with Parkinson’s – the similarity being that the symptoms are caused by an imbalance between these two neurotransmitters.

　

Anticholinergics are on my list to try – it just takes a long time to try everything. That said, expectations have not been high but one doesn’t know until they try.

[Ghormeh Sabzi]

I was thinking more on the lines of boosting dopamine and acetylcholine to give a general all round boost, rather than using an anticholinergic to pursue a different acetylecholine-dopamine balance.

If anticholinergics exacerbate symptoms as you say David, then perhaps this gives this argument more weight.

A couple of people have tried piracetam over at the visual snow forum: http://thosewithvisualsnow.yuku.com/topic/6943/Piracetam-effects?

I believe piracetam is often taken with a choline source. Did your experiment include this?

[Ghormeh Sabzi]

The wiki page (aka should be read with caution) for anticholinergics lists visual snow as a potential side effect - I don't know where that comes from.