Sam - Sinemet Trial

[Sam93]

Hey all,

I have some sinemet 25/100 and took half a pill today, already noticing some benefits, afterimages have been greatly reduced and I took a walk today and noticed my vision seemed much sharper.

The best thing though is a slight lessening of DP/DR, not much but I can tell a slight improvement.

I also feel more alert and awake, not charged up in the sense of an amphetamine high, I can just tell there's more dopamine floating around haha.

Be very interesting to see what happens in a week.

[Guest]

That´s great to hear. Good luck!

[VisualDude]

Welcome to the "responders" club ... it is great when it works.  Since you responded well on your first 1/2 pill, keep your dose at that for a while and see over time ... you may not need a lot.  For me, 1/2 pill 2 or 3 times a day.  Another member uses 1/2 pill 4 times.  [ Sometimes a person gets excited with some results and decides to take a lot, then starts to feel poorly ]

 

It seems that "responders" are still very individual in dose.  Dr A used about as strong as you can go without taking unsafe levels like you get from cocaine or meth.  Some "responders" said it lasted a couple hours.  Others said it lasted them a few days.  One did well on the drug trail dose but finds that low dose Sinemet alone does almost nothing.

 

So ... please keep us posted !!!  

[Sam93]

Thank you Both

I put the Sinemet on hold this weekend as I went away for the weekend with my girlfriend, so all in all I've taken half a pill on 2 consecutive days, I must say I'm feeling much better.

It's done nothing for visual snow, but afterimages, halos and star bursting seem definitely improved. What's nice is that the effects seem to have lingered on all weekend, I've felt so much better in myself, better than I have in 9 months since onset, and there's been no changes in lifestyle, diet, exercise, medications (none) so it must be down to the sinemet.

Yes I've never really looked at the study to be honest, is the sinemet study the same one as the COMT inhibition study? I don't really understand the COMT inhibition thing as I thought it just made l-dopa more effective somehow?

[VisualDude]

I also find that any amount I take has lasting effects ... kind of like recharging a battery.  Pretty good for a 45 min half-life, lol.

 

I don't have VS but the things you mention are also helped with me - must be related.

 

After a neurotransmitter has been released in a synapsis, it needs to be reabsorbed or broken down.  There are several mechanisms to do so.  With dopamine, COMT is one method and it is the primary method in the executive center of the brain.  Reducing (inhibiting) COMT action makes the dopamine hang around longer in the synapsis and thus increases its action.  Normally COMT inhibitors are taken in addition to Sinemet.

 

Summary: Sinemet feeds/increases production of dopamine.  COMT inhibition makes it hang around longer, increasing its activity.

[Sam93]

Yeah I was extremely surprised that half a pill had such an effect, I wasn't expecting it to do anything!

Was your suggestion to just keep it to half a pill daily for now, or increase to 2x or maybe even 3x a day? The only thing I've noticed is I feel a bit nauseated for around an hour after I take it.

Other than that it's fantastic! Been in a brilliant mood ever since the first half a pill, and my anxiety is dramatically improved.

Regarding the COMT inhibition, thanks for the info, the results from that study actually looked quite promising, it's a shame there aren't more responders.

I find it so strange that a little dopamine can have such a dramatic effect on one, yet do nothing for another.

I don't know if this is a side effect of the drug or just a random occurrence, but I was asleep in bed and had a dream that I threw a punch at someone/something, and actually punched my girlfriend in real life (while asleep of course). It woke both of us up, my fist was hurting quite badly and her face was red and swollen so I must've punched her quite hard unfortunately. Do you think the Sinemet could cause this? It's like my body is doing what I'm doing in the dream state, in the same sense as sleepwalking.

[Sam93]

Might I add that the above 'side effect' has happened twice now, and only since taking Sinemet, nothing of that nature has ever happened before.

I don't want to be potentially injuring myself or my partner (I'm sure I'd get a punch back if it happened again lol) as both times it has been fairly quick movements, the first time a punch and the second time a random arm movement that woke me up as I hit my arm on something.

Apologies for not editing my previous post but I'm currently using the mobile site on my iphone and can't see an edit option.

Thanks,

Sam.

[VisualDude]

Never heard of it causing you to punch someone in your sleep.  But suppose anything is possible, perhaps affecting your movement during dreaming not being fully shut off.  Are your dreams different?

 

A slight nausea when first trying the med is not unusual.

 

If 1/2 pill once a day is helping, then stick with that a few days.  Maybe 2 doses will bring 2 punches

[Sam93]

Haha! I did a quick google and it seems Sinemet can indeed cause REM sleep issues like I described, it's weird because it seems REM sleep bodily jerks like that are common in Parkinson's and Sinemet fixes this in those people.

My dreams have been slightly more unusual and nonsensical, but hopefully this will pass as my body adjusts.

Back on the Sinemet today I'll keep the thread updated with progress

Haha! Yeah I'll have to sleep with my hands wrapped in bubble wrap.

[VisualDude]

My dreams have always been wild, crazy stuff.  Not sure what a 'normal', calm, 'sensible' dream would be.  Can only imagine that a LSD trip would be way beyond sanity ... and the ability to return.

 

 

The wife says I'm less of a jerk since Sinemet    Yea, have read that increasing dopamine improves 'REM' things.  So guess your just adjusting.  Bubble-wrap, rope, handcuffs, the rack, iron maden, ... all sorts of options are available to you - - - keep her happy

 

[Sam93]

Yeah I've often had insane dreams in the past, I don't very often have 'good' or 'bad' dreams, just nonsensical series of events and conversations, gets pretty weird!

Yup my trip was awful, and landed me with this rubbish, drugs are bad!

Yeah people have said I seemed much better over the weekend too, was a bit worried about increasing dopamine as my uncle has schizophrenia, and I'd tried amphetamine before which made me a rude and obnoxious fool for a day, but I suppose they're not the same.

Haha! That gave me a good laugh, are those for me or her

[LarryC]

Great.  It seems to be one of those meds that eother they help right away pr they don't work at all.

What is the dosage you have of a whole pill?  Is it combined with another med.in the same pill?

[Sam93]

Yeah it seems to either work quite effectively or do nothing at all, it's strange how there's not one med that helps all isn't it? Aside from Clonazepam I suppose.

 

The dosage is 25/100 and there's no other meds in the pill aside from carbidopa/levodopa.

 

Thanks!

[VisualDude]

Haha! That gave me a good laugh, are those for me or her

 

It's dangerous to get into couple-counseling.  Perhaps BOTH - Mutually Assured Destruction

 

 

 

 

Yeah people have said I seemed much better over the weekend too, was a bit worried about increasing dopamine as my uncle has schizophrenia, and I'd tried amphetamine before which made me a rude and obnoxious fool for a day, but I suppose they're not the same.

 

You know, your uncles schizophrenia may have little to do with your genetics.  Or perhaps it is expressing the dopamine problem in a different way.  I had a brother who went completely paranoid/delusional ... he had a PhD in physics.  Perhaps advanced education is as dangerous as LSD

 

But anyway, it makes one cautiously observant as to how any dopamine med might affect us.  Can't help worry at first.  But haven't gone weird on the various meds I've tried.  Wonder sometimes, since anxiety and paranoia are not so far apart, if some people considered psychotic wouldn't actually benefit with adding dopamine instead of subtracting it.  As you have noticed, your quality of life improved (so far) yet docs often prescribe antidopamine to help people.

 

Anyway, aside from the dream-boxing, it sounds like it is going very well for you.

 

 

 

Yeah it seems to either work quite effectively or do nothing at all, it's strange how there's not one med that helps all isn't it? Aside from Clonazepam I suppose.

 

The dosage is 25/100 and there's no other meds in the pill aside from carbidopa/levodopa.

 

Thanks!

 

Funny, good old Klonopin doesn't help my visuals.  It is helpful with anxiety and sometimes sleep.

 

So, as Larry asked, you aren't taking anything else besides Sinemet right now?  You have tried Klonopin previously?

[Sam93]

Haha mutually assured destruction sounds about right!

 

Yeah, I suppose not much is known about what causes/triggers schizophrenia. My uncle has a very bad case of schizophrenia, you know, believes he works places he doesn't, believes he has no arms and legs and is blind (even though he can see) quite awful really!

 

And as for your brother, maybe the stresses of a PHd level education could bring about the condition? It's not unheard of for life stressors to trigger mental disorders like that I guess. Also there's probably much more involved in the pathogenesis of Psychotic disorders than increased dopamine, otherwise anti psychotics would more or less completely cure them. I believe 5HT2A is also over active in people with Schizophrenia, and there's probably much more. 

 

However, I've done my fair share of drugs, including ones renowned for bringing about psychoses, and copious amounts of cannabis of which there is a link to psychotic disorders, and I'm still (relatively) sane so I'd have thought I was safe haha, it's interesting but I've never heard of anyone with HPPD going psychotic as far as I'm aware?

 

Ah Klonopin helps my visuals tremendously, but I only take it every once in a while, once or at most twice a week to help prevent addiction.

 

Nope no other prescription meds aside from the Sinemet, I do supplement with a B vitamin complex, omega 3 fish oil along with L-Theanine and Valerian Root for anxiety and sleep sometimes, I try to keep it to just one med at a time as I don't like the thought of lots of chemicals floating around my brain.

Thanks!

[VisualDude]

One wonders about links between perceptual distortions, HPPD, and perceptual distortions, schizophrenia. 

 

Here is a curious mind-blower: Blindness Prevents Schizophrenia http://mindhacks.com/2009/09/22/lifetime-blindness-prevents-schizophrenia/  This came up in another forum a while back http://www.dpselfhelp.com/forum/index.php?/topic/26406-interesting-findings-regarding-blindness-and-mental-illness

 

Does a person born blind trip 'visually' on LSD?

 

 

 

Another thing to think about is that anxiety and paranoia (a key component of schizophrenia) can be related.  A person might run/hide from others for legitimate reasons, not just 'blowing it out of proportion'.   Meth is know to cause paranoia.  The "dark side" of dopamine is its excess or its lack.  But as you are noticing, getting a better balance really improves life.

 

 

There are a few members on the DP site who suffer schizophrenia as well as DP.  Perhaps there are schizophrenic HPPDers as well.

[Sam93]

Yes, schizophrenia is a very curious one, I mean obviously it serves no evolutionary purpose to be paranoid and delusional with hallucinations. I actually thought about that the other day, the fact that you don't hear of any blind people with severe mental illnesses, I'm sure there are some, but imagine being blind and having DP/DR? I can't imagine anything scarier.

 

I read an article once about blind people that had tripped on LSD, I think it was just an account of one gentleman and although he had been blind from birth and couldn't really 'describe'  vision, he described what could only be classified as colours and visual phenomenon, I'll have to look for that again one day. I suppose if the blindness is because of information not reaching the brain from the eye, and the visual part of the brain is still intact, then visually tripping while blind is possible.

 

Anxiety and paranoia are not so far apart I suppose, the main difference being an anxiety sufferer knows it is without good reason, no matter how bad the anxiety, even during a panic attack. With paranoia, one might believe somebody is out to kill them when in fact they are not, which is unjustified, so I think we can still distinguish the two.

 

I think the main thing is people with anxiety tend to fear severe mental disorders such as Schizophrenia. Especially people with OCD, if you look at OCD forums then obsessive thoughts about developing schizophrenia is a very prominent one. I suppose it relates to a fear of losing control of oneself and ones mind, an 'outlet' for the unjustified fear so to speak. 

[VisualDude]

People often confuse ODC with Hyper-vigilance.  A key thing about ODC is repetitive/compulsive behaviours, not just anxiety and intrusive thoughts/concerns. 

 

OCD   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obsessive%E2%80%93compulsive_disorder

 

Hypervigilance   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypervigilance

 

Paranoia   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranoia

 

Anxiety   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anxiety

 

While parallels/overlaps can be made, they are distinctive.  The fear reaction one gets with HPPD is quite understandable - for that mater, many get it while tripping as well.  Then there is also the changes in the brain (HPPD) - hyperactivity/pre-seizure/"cerebral disinhibition".  These can lead to anxiety for 'structural'/functional reasons, not just emotional.  In all cases during life, it is best to keep anxiety low.

 

So, as you states, with high levels of anxiety and other perceptual changes, it is only natural that one might be concerned about schizophrenia or other aspects of their 'sanity'.  As it is, sanity is hard enough in this rather insane world.

 

 

At any rate, this seems to be drifting from your Sinemet trial.  Keep on the gloves

 

[Sam93]

Yes apologies, I have a tendency to get a little off topic haha!

 

Well it's going well so far from what I can tell anyway, I still feel much better, I can't say it's done a great deal for the visuals because the only major difference I can tell is afterimages/halos/starbursting, It hasn't reduced the intensity of afterimages, just made them shorter in duration, if you understand what I mean.

 

In any case, I feel a great deal better cognitively and emotionally, I think the gloomy English winter weather has made my symptoms a little worse so the Sinemet was a welcome improvement.

[VisualDude]

Hi Sam,

 

Was wondering if you still use Sinemet?

 

How about Gabapentin?  http://hppdonline.com/index.php?/topic/3454-gabapentin/

 

Been a bit since you posted.  Found something interesting and wondering if it works for many or just Sinemet people.  Give this a look when you have a moment http://hppdonline.com/index.php?/topic/5027-thiamine-cocarboxylase/  Thanks!

 

Otherwise, hope all is well with you in 'Sunny UK', lol

[Sam93]

Hi Sam,

 

Was wondering if you still use Sinemet?

 

How about Gabapentin?  http://hppdonline.com/index.php?/topic/3454-gabapentin/

 

Been a bit since you posted.  Found something interesting and wondering if it works for many or just Sinemet people.  Give this a look when you have a moment http://hppdonline.com/index.php?/topic/5027-thiamine-cocarboxylase/  Thanks!

 

Otherwise, hope all is well with you in 'Sunny UK', lol

 

Hello Visual,

 

I don't use Sinemet any more, while I definitely responded to it, people were noticing my behaviour was a little more erratic than normal and I felt a little too hyperactive. I am unsure if this is a common side effect. If it had been without behavioural changes, I would still be taking it. Perhaps I will do a re-trial in combination with my current medication.

 

Nor Gabapentin! It worked great for a few months and then pooped out on me, I was reluctant to up the dose as I had heard withdrawals were horrific and so decided to discontinue treatment.

 

The only medication I now take is Sodium Valproate which I have been taking for a couple of years now and has greatly reduced visuals and DP. This is curious however, as Valproate lowers dopamine in some brain regions and in some cases leads to reversible parkinsonism. I am not on a high dose so perhaps this effect isn't pronounced but it is strange that I generally respond to dopamine and yet valproate has had a pronounced effect.

 

The only downside to the Valproate has been the development of a slight tremor resembling essential tremor or action tremor, similar to the tremor one would get after too much exercise. It is unresponsive to alcohol and not fully responsive to Propranolol, and does not occur at rest.

 

I have had a look at your post regarding thiamine cocarboxylase and have heard good things about it from others, I cannot seem to find it in the UK though. I am weary of purchasing from eBay as it seems likely I would be sent regular thiamine.

 

All is well thank you, still tripping away somewhat but enjoying life as much as possible. Hope you're well also

[neverwarned]

Hello Sam I am kinda new here but I have been prescribed Depakote Sodium Valproate and have been taking it for two and a half weeks now .. I am curious about how long do you think it took for you to start noticing a change in visuals ... I have mostly Just trails, afterimages, some snow/static, auras around objects ? my dp/dr has faded before I started the Depakote .. Im just curious . Thanks and I am glad that you are able to manage and doing good .. Thanks again. note: I got this Hppd from after I quit pot and started Zoloft the second time and I stoped taking the Zoloft because I started to have these visuals...