ferret Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 Well I haven't been in a very good mood the past few days but it hasn't had that much to do with HPPD besides that really shitty halucination I had the other day. I have been improving and now even in the dark my VS is basically gone. It doesn't seem like the darkness is quite right but honestly its been so long since I've seen any that It might be completely normal at this point. It seems like the dark kinda glows a little but there are no difineable specks like before unless I really look for them. This is the first night that Its been like this though and early on when my snow was a lot worse a lot of the time I had a night like this and then it came back sso ill let you know how tomorro goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VisualDude Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 It doesn't seem like the darkness is quite right Would you please explain this? Do you mean that black isn't as black as it should be? To illustrate, look at the picture below of the car partly painted. Note that the 'gloss black' is truely black (other than the reflections) whereas the 'matte black' is not dark black ... there is sort of whiteness in it. Sort of 'lack-of-black' or 'smooth-visual-snow'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2muchmandy Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 visual snow seems worse on matte surfaces actually :/ nice GTR is it yours? great news aswell ferrett, you sound well on the way to repair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nepuinthesky Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 visual snow seems worse on matte surfaces actually :/ nice GTR is it yours? great news aswell ferrett, you sound well on the way to repair same for me i mostly got visual snow on matte surfaces,on shiny surfaces i dont see really the snow. how could this be explainable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VisualDude Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 is it yours? Not mine - I have a near-rust-bucket ... 1993 Chevy Caprice visual snow seems worse on matte surfaces actually This is facinating information - thank you !!! Food for the grey matter... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2muchmandy Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 Ah my aunty in carolina has one of those ha! I first noticed it in my bathroom, we have sorta dark, glossy almost metallic paint, and my VS is less there than most rooms with regular flat paint. My bmx was sorta satiny green but i recently painted it matte yellow and like...when i look at it my snow is worse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VisualDude Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 Try looking at different colors and let us know if certain ones are better or worse Is your static B/W? Color? Both? Bit blotches? Small specks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2muchmandy Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 creme is the best colour to look at. the snow is sorta, ghosty, its not coloured i can just see movement, on white objects the snow is tinged pale blue. on other colours its more white in the AM. when i first wake up for 10-15 seconds ( used to be 15 minutes ) the snow would be thick black and white specks. now my snow is thin...its mainly i can see the movement not the snow. like a light mist or rain, it seems blotchy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morbide Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 Green surfaces are good for my snow, luckily my room is painted green! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2muchmandy Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 green is bad for me, im gunna paint my room creme 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferret Posted July 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 Well unourtunately by the time I went upstairs after posting this it had returned but it was minimal, I actually see better in pitch black now than I do in almost black. I see 100% fine in lit areas. The black not looking quite right might have just been Eigengrau (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eigengrau) I havn't seen pitch black for a while so I might not remmber exactly what Eigengrau is like. I would say it was more like the matte black than the gloss black but Ithink that is what Eigengrau is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miketusa Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 Green is the absolute worst. I get really bad blue or purple after images with green. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VisualDude Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 Well unourtunately by the time I went upstairs after posting this it had returned but it was minimal, I actually see better in pitch black now than I do in almost black. I see 100% fine in lit areas. The black not looking quite right might have just been Eigengrau (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eigengrau) I havn't seen pitch black for a while so I might not remmber exactly what Eigengrau is like. I would say it was more like the matte black than the gloss black but Ithink that is what Eigengrau is. So it sounds like you experience what I do and (for lack of terminology) call "Lack of Black" or "Smooth Visual Snow" or "Backlighting". This was one of my earliest symptoms. And ultimately (along with associated contrast problems) led to requesting dopamine increasing meds. As mentioned elsewhere, the Horizontal and Amacrine cells use dopamine to regulate/adjust sensitivity (control part of "the transduction chain"). Likewise, disinhibition ("noise") contributes to seeing what isn't there - including this "Backlighting". While later (such as now) Sinemet helps this "Backlighting", it used to require Gabapentin. Thanks for the link about Eigengrau. Another term to understand what is going on. Can't remember ... Does anyone report that Klonopin helps/resolves their VS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nepuinthesky Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 green is worse for afterimages and matte red for visual snow. no snow on shiny white or cream. snow on black has improved alot. unfortunately these eigengrau article on wiki isnt the best in english there are alot of great german article about it and yes iam absolutly convinced that VS is this eigengrau or eigenlicht. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2muchmandy Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 yeah red is murder for visual snow. i hate looking at red things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferret Posted July 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 I wish I could find a better article about Eigengrau but every link I click on comes up to some weird art. From the wikipedia page it seems like a phenomena everyone experiences, that black car looks blacker in the light than it would in the dark because of contrast. There must always be "noise" being sent along the optic nerve but its usualy ignored because the brain is taking in much stronger signals from actual stimuli. When there aren't opposing signals the noise is picked up and intensified by the brain. It seems to me that it is very simmilar to the process by which our eyes adapt to the dark. What would be very interesting would be to perform a study where individuals with simmilar vision (in terms of reading an eye chart not of HPPD) were taken from a light area too a dark area and timed for how long it took there eyes to adjust enough for them to to read a word off a card. I wonder if there would be a significant difference between the average times of the hppd group and the control group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nepuinthesky Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 maybe these links are a bit better than the wiki article: http://books.google.de/books?id=qbF44AEMGdcC&pg=PA170&dq=eigengrau+brain&hl=de&sa=X&ei=pxz7T7PeFsfOswbAuZC0BQ&ved=0CDIQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=eigengrau%20brain&f=false http://books.google.de/books?id=LuIy4Qe7cY8C&pg=PA205&dq=eigengrau+brain&hl=de&sa=X&ei=pxz7T7PeFsfOswbAuZC0BQ&ved=0CDgQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=eigengrau%20brain&f=false you can try to search google books for more links. i think its interesting that risperdion(sp?) seems to play a part in this phenomenom it plays also the main part in afterimages. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferret Posted July 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 Thanks for the articles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VisualDude Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 think its interesting that risperdion(sp?) seems to play a part in this phenomenom it plays also the main part in afterimages. Yes, since Risperidone reduces dopamine, then the retina is unable to properly adjust contrast (horizontal and amacrine cells) - - - this is a good demonstration. From the wikipedia page it seems like a phenomena everyone experiences, that black car looks blacker in the light than it would in the dark because of contrast. Perception is based on comparison and experience (memory). With vision the comparison is contrast. You'll notice with art that special effort is made to make edges stand out by 'outlining' a dark edge with a light one. Looking closely it seems strange. But further away it makes the image come to life. There must always be "noise" being sent along the optic nerve but its usualy ignored because the brain is taking in much stronger signals from actual stimuli. When there aren't opposing signals the noise is picked up and intensified by the brain. It seems to me that it is very simmilar to the process by which our eyes adapt to the dark. The 'flashbulb' afterimage effect is attributed mainly to the time necessary for the pigment chemicals to regenerate (upward to 45 minutes). But something more is involved - otherwise why would dopamine meds have any sort of effect. There seems to be no information connecting dopamine with general cell 'maintenance' (non-'neural-specific' metabolic processes). The "noise" thing is interesting. Prior to HPPD crap, my whole life when going to bed and closing eyes ... it was pitch black. Sometimes (when board) would gently rub eyes and generate mild CEVs. The pressure apparently generated unusual (not normal) signals from the retina which the brain proceeded to try to make something out of. So, in this sense, weird visual stuff can happen by abnormal info from retina or by hyperactivity in the brain (cerebral disinhibition) or both. What would be very interesting would be to perform a study where individuals with simmilar vision (in terms of reading an eye chart not of HPPD) were taken from a light area too a dark area and timed for how long it took there eyes to adjust enough for them to to read a word off a card. I wonder if there would be a significant difference between the average times of the hppd group and the control group. There have been a number of reports of afterimages lingering with DR/HPPD - especially when you blink (seems to 'refresh' the prolongation). I too could make an afterimage last a couple minutes by selective blinking. But when taking Sinemet, the lingering doesn't happen, presumably providing fuel for the retinal cells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferret Posted July 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 But I would be interested in a study like that to see how long it takes for our eyes to adjust to darker places. I'm assuming there is more to that process than pupil dialation, is there? Sensitivity to light is a symptom associated with HPPD that confuses many because most HPPD symptoms are worse in the dark. Perhaps they seem worse in the dark because we are more sensitive to that constant noise and when there is a lack of more powerful signals it gets even worse. I don't know very much about how the eye adjusts to light other than pupil dialation and restriction so everything I say could make no sense. I'm going to go look it up right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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