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Dr. Alvin Stein and Dr. Marty Hinz OCT2 Optimization Protocol


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Hey guys, I just wanted to post this real quick. Truthfully, I haven't had the time to dig extremely deep into this, but the website alone is beyond in depth with TONS of references, links, etc. and describes the protocol(s). Essentially, the protocol is to use amino acids AND their co-factors and building blocks to completely and simultaneously restore the concentrations of serotonin, dopamine, norepinephrine, and epinephrine. They also discuss why using things such as l-tryptophan/l-tyrosine won't work. I'm telling you, take a look into this - I will have to increase my knowledge in psychopharmacology and neurobiology exponentially to really grasp everything (though they lay it out quite well).

 

Mastery of the most powerful and far reaching transporter system in the human body Based on the research of Marty Hinz, MD

 

I just contacted almost every practitioner in my state that is trained in this protocol, and also just emailed and called Dr. Alvin Stein describing my issues and those of other HPPDer's.

 

Here is a lil excerpt, and why using the traditional individual amino's won't work:

 

depletion-88.jpg

 

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You might want to start with genetic testing.  I recently used 23andMe and right away found problems that related to HPPD.  One is a mild version of an enzyme problem that interferes with catacolomine production.  Ironically it is treated by taking levodopa, which is what I have already been doing.

 

Nevertheless, the genetic confirmation was fascinating.  Also, the test indicates that it is unlikely that I would benefit from a COMT inhibitor - so no point pursuing that and good thing since they can be toxic.

 

When an enzyme/cofactor can't be produced, either it is handled another way or you eventually die.  These are things we are born with.  When a process is weakened, a person is vulnerable to certain problem.  Yet, often by changes in diet and/or suppliementation, the person need not succumb to the related disease/disorder.

 

Worth checking out ... you're genetics are you.

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Interestingly, I just received my 23andMe kit yesterday, and today will be mailing it off. I plan on uploading it to both GeneticGenie and Prometheus. The only thing is, I'm completely swamped with different studies, especially since I started taking some extra chemistry course and trying to self-teach higher levels of math, so, I'm not certain I'll have the time to even dig into the literature and figure out what everything means. I believe Prometheus does that for you, but it doesn't necessarily tell you how to address the problem. 

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It isn't quick and easy, but the info will be there when you are ready to dig.  If enough of us do these tests, we can compare snps and see if there is a pattern.  There will be some things and quite possibly not where we expect, but that is the nature of this researched.

 

When you get results, PM me so we can compare notes.  Syntho and I are doing that.

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There is also Nutrahacker which you can pay for.

I am in the process of cataloging my variants of these SNP's.

http://www.snpedia.com/index.php/Dopamine/all

http://www.snpedia.com/index.php/Serotonin/all

http://www.snpedia.com/index.php/Glutamate/all

http://www.snpedia.com/index.php/GABA/all

Also other ones, such as those of the Arc and krox-20 genes which have been implicated in LSD use (see the epigenetics thread).

There is lots to do..!

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If one has the money, I've spoken to some of the people out of the MTHFR group and some other functional medicine guys on facebook and they all recommend organic acid testing to give better context.

 

There's also this more extensive (and expensive) genetic testing source.

 

 

There is also Nutrahacker which you can pay for.

I am in the process of cataloging my variants of these SNP's.

http://www.snpedia.com/index.php/Dopamine/all

http://www.snpedia.com/index.php/Serotonin/all

http://www.snpedia.com/index.php/Glutamate/all

http://www.snpedia.com/index.php/GABA/all

Also other ones, such as those of the Arc and krox-20 genes which have been implicated in LSD use (see the epigenetics thread).

There is lots to do..!

Interesting, there's definitely a lot of research that will be needed to be done then haha. Really eager to get my results. 

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If one has the money, I've spoken to some of the people out of the MTHFR group and some other functional medicine guys on facebook and they all recommend organic acid testing to give better context.

 

There's also this more extensive (and expensive) genetic testing source.

 

 

Interesting, there's definitely a lot of research that will be needed to be done then haha. Really eager to get my results. 

I'll look into that. It is important to note that 23andMe does not map your entire personal genome (3 billion genome base pairs). It reveals information about what are arguably the most important 1 million snips of your DNA, which is supposed to be quite telling.

The 23andMe results are exciting.. but the info is not going to be very useful until we have quite a substantial number of us with results to compare. When you put the results into promethease, you'll find loads of SNP's that give you a higher risk of Parkinson's, schizophrenia, OCD.. etc. It won't become apparent which ones (if they are covered by 23andMe) are potentially worth delving into until we have collective data.

Before we branch out to other services that map more of our genome, we should see if 23andMe does the trick, considering the SNP's it covers are considered to be important. This because 23andMe is quite affordable. Let's see what it can tell us first, and to reiterate, that will only be apparent when we have more of us with results.

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I agree. Hopefully some more people on these boards get some testing done. The only potential problem I can see is how vast HPPD symptoms seem to be, and thus maybe we would all have some different SNPs and what not; though then again, maybe there are some key SNPs/genetic variations/transcription factors that can produce multiple symptoms/phenotypes. That's all pure speculation, though.

 

Going to check the epigenetics thread - I've yet to do that.

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I agree. Hopefully some more people on these boards get some testing done. The only potential problem I can see is how vast HPPD symptoms seem to be, and thus maybe we would all have some different SNPs and what not; though then again, maybe there are some key SNPs/genetic variations/transcription factors that can produce multiple symptoms/phenotypes. That's all pure speculation, though.

 

Going to check the epigenetics thread - I've yet to do that.

Visual and I have been talking about that. A survey will be needed in tandem with the DNA results for this reason.

Have you heard back any more information on what this topic is about? 

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Visual and I have been talking about that. A survey will be needed in tandem with the DNA results for this reason.

Have you heard back any more information on what this topic is about? 

OCT2? Not really, I never got through the list of all the practitioners in my area that are proficient in this protocol, only a few; the one's I did get to had their assistants get back to me but I wasn't pleased with how their assistants acted (seemed very impatient and rather miserable, lol), and how they overly prescribe bio-identical hormones. I still have a few to email/call, though, and these ones seem rather open minded, willing to try different things and offer extensive testing, etc.etc.etc.

 

As far as the protocol itself, I'm not well versed in all the information behind it, but the site has an abundance of clinical literature, theoretical literature, and so forth. They also get a bit into genetics and MTHFR and how one shouldn't waste money on overly expensive "methylated" B-vitamins unless they truly know they have methylation issues. From my brief skimming of the supporting literature, the fact that they're setting up conferences around the country (and maybe globe?) about the protocol and how OCT2 can impact everything from depression and PTSD to neurological disorders to obesity, and how in depth and personalized it is, I have this yearning to get information and try it out. At the minimum, it'd be better than the shooting in the dark I (and many others) have been doing. If it truly repletes neurotransmitter levels in a balanced fashion, it would make a lot more sense than medications, too. 

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There are limitations of course.  It is predicted that mapping the whole human genome will be down to $1000 this year.  That is 5000 times more info.  However, for the immediate future, it will be of no use at all because it hasn't been studied - virtual knowledge wasteland.

 

Whatever we can dig out of the SNPs, there are many thousands of research studies done so far - so there is some statistical knowledge.

 

Knowledge is always partial.  Something that keeps growing.  But we learn to make progress with what is reasonably known.

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It will be good to look at how these groups are examining data.

 

Just wrote a program that scans the raw gene files (i.e. 23andMe) to extract SNPs of interest into a spreadsheet for examination.  It puts selected snps as rows and member alleles in columns.  Each additional member becomes another column.  Just Synth and Vis right now, lol ... n = 2.

 

But if others on this forum contribute, we will begin to see patterns.

 

Add to this a good HPPD survey of symptoms and med responses and we can develop a legitimate study here.  This is a small start.

 

Ideal would be to get tests from HPPDers and from some of their friends who did just as many drugs without getting HPPD.  I've found data statistics of allele 'frequency'.  It is massive amount of data but should provide adequate 'control' data to start with.  Don't know where there are complete sets available.

 

This project is somewhat ambitious and depends on getting these data sets.  So any possible success is up to forum members to participate by getting these tests and contributing them.

 

 

It takes a few weeks to get results for these companies.  Glad you are giving it a try.  Ideas here are welcome :)

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What exactly is your angle here in regards to this 23andme extraction of SNPs Visual, BigPapaChakra and Syntheso?? In theory we are looking for genes that are mutated or problematic to the normal? and maybe this could be hppd related? Possibly taking COPT.inhibitors could balance out the deficiencies? What is the process to this 23andme? Just curious do you have to take any pharmaceutical conventional drugs as a prerequisite to 23andme??  What do these people need to test you??           Thanks!   Hppd24yearsandconcerned..    

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Hey guys, I just wanted to post this real quick. Truthfully, I haven't had the time to dig extremely deep into this, but the website alone is beyond in depth with TONS of references, links, etc. and describes the protocol(s). Essentially, the protocol is to use amino acids AND their co-factors and building blocks to completely and simultaneously restore the concentrations of serotonin, dopamine, norepinephrine, and epinephrine. They also discuss why using things such as l-tryptophan/l-tyrosine won't work. I'm telling you, take a look into this - I will have to increase my knowledge in psychopharmacology and neurobiology exponentially to really grasp everything (though they lay it out quite well).

 

Mastery of the most powerful and far reaching transporter system in the human body Based on the research of Marty Hinz, MD

 

I just contacted almost every practitioner in my state that is trained in this protocol, and also just emailed and called Dr. Alvin Stein describing my issues and those of other HPPDer's.

 

Here is a lil excerpt, and why using the traditional individual amino's won't work:

 

depletion-88.jpg

 

I'm busy as hell too mang.. but i'm going to look into this theory slash study and investigate it thoroughly for myself.. 

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What exactly is your angle here in regards to this 23andme extraction of SNPs Visual, BigPapaChakra and Syntheso?? In theory we are looking for genes that are mutated or problematic to the normal? and maybe this could be hppd related? Possibly taking COPT.inhibitors could balance out the deficiencies? What is the process to this 23andme? Just curious do you have to take any pharmaceutical conventional drugs as a prerequisite to 23andme??  What do these people need to test you??           Thanks!   Hppd24yearsandconcerned..    

 

Great questions.  As far as taking the test with 23andme, ancestry.com, etc., they supply a package which provides a tube with instructions.  First you hang upsidedown, then  You just spit in a tube, close it up, shake it, and mail it in a postage paid package they provide.

 

 

As for what we are after, that requires more explanation.  But basically we want to find more ways to treat HPPD.  Most people who've taken recreational drugs don't get HPPD.  Only a few do.  And then there are a few that get HPPD from antibiotics or without taking drugs.  It is because of genetics.

 

The DNA not only 'builds' a human body from a single cell, it controls/maintains all the biochemical processes that keep one alive.  Genes have variations, so some people have blue eyes, some green.  Some have dark skin and some light colored skin.  Each variation has some advantages and disadvantages.  For example, skin color is largely irrelevant but in the case of getting sunburn, then it matters.

 

People with HPPD got 'sunburnt', metaphorically speaking.

 

When a person has a genetic weakness, they can compensate with lifestyle changes.  Wear sunblock.  Avoid milk if they can't digest it.  Eat a lot of carrots if their vitamin A is low.  With HPPD we are largely blind about solving it.  Genetic studies may help change this.

 

 

While gene interpretations is complicated, patterns show up that identify strengths and weaknesses.  You mentioned Dr A's COMT inhibitor test.  He based this on research studies outside of HPPD relating to a specific gene position called rs4680(GG).  So genetics help isolate function/dysfunction.  Another area of interest is 5-HT2A - the serotonin receptor that LSD affects which causes 'tripping' and is sometimes damaged in the process.  There are dozens of genes relating just to that receptor.

 

So what we want to accomplish here is collecting a bunch of samples from people with HPPD so that we can examine them and look for patterns.  We also want it properly documented so that it could be used in more formalized studies of HPPDs.  Without samples from people, it really isn't possible to isolate what genes are involved.

 

 

Just to illustrate the role of genes in our daily life.  Note the picture below.  Each arrow is controlled by the DNA.

 

mmptot.gif

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Thanks for the return message I'm going to go on line and check out their site mang..                          I guess it will be a start of some progress in regards to looking into some similarities in our genetic make up while documenting them as time goes bye in a Excel informative graph..                    If there is some sort of defects in my 5- HTP, 5-hydroxytryptohan, L-3,4,- dihydroxyphenylalanine, or other genes and dysfunctions from the results of this test. I can counter it with remedies, meds, antidotes, and see if they truly work by doing another later 23andme test to see if it gets corrected.. I will also be able to gage any significant physical or mental changes between the time delay while taking meds/antidotes to correct dysfunction and my hopefully deterioration of hppd symptoms.. This will target progress by being more specific than pacific and seeing if there is any clarity or correlation to gene deficiencies and hppd..                                            It does sound like a genius idea Visual!!  And a good start to say the least!!!!          Hppd24years..

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Checked out the site looks really interesting for sure, apparently the F.D.A. is a little upset with them but needless to say they are still trucking along...                                   The test is surely affordable to all so that shouldn't be an issue to obtain the Genetic Analysis test from 23andme.. The reports are a analytical point of view of the likelihood into developing genetic predispositions to deficiencies or diseases; but to make things clear it's not a diagnoses.. In essence my understanding to this is it's displaying the risk or percentage in the susceptibility of disease or dysfunction from your genes which are ultimately the main area where this is initiated from.. (Starting point)                                 There is also another chapter of this test in regards to Ancestral Linage that is included with the report. 23andme reconnect you to your Ancestral composition- four bear fathers, their heritage, maternal/paternal haplo groups and Neanderthal raw genetics. That too, is very interesting to me, I would love to see what Ancestral Linage I originated from.. I'm donating my saliva with my alien/extraterrestrial being genetics..    Misshppd24yearsandstillrolling!!                                    

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  • 11 months later...

hey guys

 

i would like to do the DNA test in the near future. I am from Poland (Europe) - could I do just any DNA test they offer in Europe or would it be better for any reason to do the same test as ye did 23andMe? there is no point to do any more extensive test at all, is there (in relation to hppd) ?

 

I think the same as you, we should get other people to do those tests.. maybe we should make posts on different forums aboud it + announce it on FB groups. There is few k of people with HPPD/visual snow etc.

 

 

 

Hey guys, I just wanted to post this real quick. Truthfully, I haven't had the time to dig extremely deep into this, but the website alone is beyond in depth with TONS of references, links, etc. and describes the protocol(s). Essentially, the protocol is to use amino acids AND their co-factors and building blocks to completely and simultaneously restore the concentrations of serotonin, dopamine, norepinephrine, and epinephrine. They also discuss why using things such as l-tryptophan/l-tyrosine won't work. I'm telling you, take a look into this - I will have to increase my knowledge in psychopharmacology and neurobiology exponentially to really grasp everything (though they lay it out quite well).

 

Mastery of the most powerful and far reaching transporter system in the human body Based on the research of Marty Hinz, MD

 

I just contacted almost every practitioner in my state that is trained in this protocol, and also just emailed and called Dr. Alvin Stein describing my issues and those of other HPPDer's.

 

Here is a lil excerpt, and why using the traditional individual amino's won't work:

 

depletion-88.jpg

 

 

BigPapaChakra did you try that aminoacid protocol with any of those practitioners??

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