Conquer

I'm too tired to fully respond, but I would just like to make it clear, I wasn't suggesting that dropping more psychedelics would somehow resolve HPPD. I agree, that would most definitely make things 10x worse if that was the sole method.

What I mean is - I am inclined to believe that inducing the kind of psychedelic/hallucinogenic states that brought us here, to activate responsible areas, would be a starting point in tackling what I believe is more of a core issue - beyond simply containing the sympathetic nervous system, which I would argue would only be palliative and not something that has a potential in resolving what is fundamentally going on (I believe the core issues involve the emotional centres i.e hippocampus + amygdala).

I speculate psychedelics (again, those things that brought us here) could be the only substances that could invoke certain areas fundamental to the pathogenesis of HPPD... and I suggest that invoking a therapy or form of medication simultaneously whilst inducing these states, could condition the mind not to result in a residual perceptive and cognitive trauma (I have done some reading which I mean to put together in a post in relation to HPPD + PTSD), but condition it to deal with it.

I know it sounds whacky, but I believe that the answer will be outside the box. Not saying that's necessarily the case, but I'm open to that as an option.

Anyway, I have been meaning to put this into a more fleshed review. I hope to do so very soon.

Addendum: so, not saying fight fire with fire; relight the fire and simultaneously distinguish it i.e. as above - condition the brain to fight the fire (well, learn how to deal with it).

Yeah, well I suspect the core issue (or at least aggravator) in most of the HPPD cases is excessive stress and anxiety. It sounds like this method is one of many ways of dealing with this stress. In that sense there might be multiple 'cures' for HPPD, which this is one of. Shrooms do have great potential for these kind of stress issues. However, as HPPD sufferers I would be a tad cautious about using shrooms as an intermediary to deal with the underlying stress.

Let me guess, you were a somewhat anxious person before your panic attack? Anyway, your symptoms sound like they are caused from stress. The marijuana triggered your panic attack, which triggered your underlying anxiety, and since then you've been having issues controlling your anxiety due to your fear. Tracers and visual snow can definitely be experienced soley from this kind of stress, in which case you do not have HPPD.

I think you should see a psychologist, I bet one who has dealt with anxiety/DR before could really help you.

Why not just move to the countryside, where you can buy up some land and know you have somewhere 100% safe to enjoy.

 

I wonder if the stress caused worrying about the 2nd hand smoke actually cause your relapse... and not the pot itself. everyone is different, of course, but i've smoked pot after getting hppd, it does make me much worse, but only for an hour or so. Once it is out of my system, it doesn't affect me.

Yeah... This. I somewhat doubt the second hand smoke caused it. I'd say your worry of the second-hand smoke is what created stress, causing relapse.

Nice. I smoked a few times this past weekend and managed to keep it under control. It was still way, way, too intense to be generally up lifting. But it was a nice break from the normal every day. I smoked three times in total this weekend. And this week I've had slight head pressure. Other that things remain normal. Weird thing is, if I drink and smoke its way more relaxing. Go figure.

Damn, I've been tempted recently to smoke. Still afraid of triggering another DR attack though. I might give it a try soon though...

My DP/DR is gone. When I first got it, I got so stressed about it that I just couldn't stop thinking about it. I had no clue it was called DP/DR. I thought that the drug I had taken (DXM) had permanently fucked me up, and that my DP/DR was the result of some kind of brain damage. However, after some research I eventually realized that what I had was DP/DR. After reading the wiki link on DR where it noted that DR can be caused by stress, it hit me that my stress was actually feeding my DR, which in turn fed my stress, causing a vicious cycle. I just got faith in the idea that the DR would fade away if I didn't stress it, and sure enough, as my stress went away so did my DR.

I will say this: porn does not help your DP/DR. Neither does excessive video game playing or TV watching. You gotta ground yourself in the real world.

Also, don't bother with doctors, most have never even heard of this condition.

You got through it once, and you'll get through it again. Hang in there.

I was about to ask the same question. After I got my HPPD from DXM last year, I had DR for about 3 months. After those 3 months it faded away, and 3 months later it was gone (so I had it for a total of 6 months or so). I've completely abstained from smoking weed so far but now I'd like to try again. It's not the HPPD I'm worried about, but rather the possibility of stirring up my DR again. Any suggestions or experiences on how weed might affect my DR?

I tried smoking pot again many times, and I never got the normal 'high' again. I got derealised and dissociated every time i tried smoking.

So than I decided to never smoke again, i'm pretty sure if you don't stop smoking you're HPPD will not fully cure so..

You have to realise that the nice smoking days are over and instead of smoking you should do something else like sports..

I learned to life with it but i still miss the smoking, but instead I do a lot of sports now and I feel better every day!

I drank 3 months after my onset of HPPD, and the entire experience of being inebriated was totally normal. However, it slowly began to become odder and odder (this is correlated with a decrease in the quality of sleep I got). Now alcohol simply makes my vision super disorienting and makes me feel dumber. In addition, hydrocodone had no effect on me other than muffling my hearing and giving me tinnitus Point is that I can definitely see how drugs might affect one differently after HPPD/DR. On the other hand, Ritalin affected me the same as before.

acording to Dr. Abrams Ritalin has been known to cause HPPD by itself

Interesting. Is this in one of his articles? Do did he tell you?

I have read that people staying on Ritalin double their changes of eventually developing Parkinsons. This stands in contrast to taking dopamine agonists very early for PD usually slows the progression of the disease. So not all dopamine increasing drugs are equal. So Ritalin is harder on the neurons than PD drugs.

Look at the comments section, it's the comment he made on August 13th, 2009:

http://amrglobal.powweb.com/hallucinogen-persisting-perception-disorder

It kinda comes and goes. It's never really bad. I hardly notice it unless I'm lying on my side. I read what you were talking about with the drunk vision, and I think that goes along with starbursting and ghosting, our eyes are having a hard time focusing right, and our pupils are having trouble contracting and dilating which causes the visual abnormalities. This either has something in my opinion with dopamine, or intraocular pressure.

Yeah, I've definitely felt that my eyes sometimes have a hard time focusing right, etc... Damn, I don't know anyone else except for you whose symptoms match mine so closely. I suspect it has to do with dopamine, as I've had my intraocular pressure checked several time with no issues.

I suspect that the food poisoning you got did make your symptoms (HPPD + DP/DR) worse... temporarily. You probably got super anxious when you saw the symptoms increase, and since the flu you've been constantly watching your symptoms, paranoid that the increase is permanent.

It's not.

Your anxiety isn't allowing you to let go and move on... while at first it was the illness increasing your symptoms, at this point it's completely your anxiety causing the symptoms to increase, especially the DP/DR. The increased symptoms will go away, you just need to stop worrying and trust that it'll return to baseline.

Are you still sick? Did you take any medicine for your stomach problems?

Here are some tidbits of information I have gathered while browsing tinnitus message boards:

FACTS:

- Stimulants can cause/excacerbate it

- Alcohol can exacerbate it, and sometimes can cause it

- Ototoxic drugs such as hydrocodone/acetaminophen combinations can cause it

- Some users report that caffeine temporarily makes symptoms worse

ANECODTAL:

- Ginkgo Biloba is highly recommended by the tinnitus community to reduce symptoms

- MSG can be harmful to your tinnitus. One guy posted a topic about how he ate MSG-laden foods every day. After researching a link between MSG and tinnitus, he cut the MSG out. His tinnitus completely dissapeared 3 months later.

- A guy who got tinnitus from cocaine said that it dissapeared after 2 years

can you describe drunk vision? and yeah wellbutrin would probably be the way to go...wish we could just have coffee dammit, id feel a little more normal

That's the frustrating part, I really don't know how to describe it. It's been about a month since I got it now and have now forgotten what normal vision looks like. I think it has something to do with how quickly my eyes are able to focus, and the way my eyes moves (basically some problem with my eye muscles). Anyway, you know how your vision kind of gets a little disorienting after 2-3 shots? It's kind of like that I guess. It's not DR though, I had that for a few months and this is definitely different.

Yeah I think we did. Mine are starbursting and ghosting. That's really the sum of my symptoms at this point. I'm about 8 months in with the HPPD.

I see from your sig that you also have tinnitus - I got that +11 months after initial onset after I took 10mg of hydrocodone + 650mg of acemetaphine, and combining the ritalin + alcohol made it way worse. Has yours gotten better?

It's possible. I remember taking Adderall a few days before my symptoms came. It was miserable actually, I was surrounded by friends on shrooms who didn't think I was important enough to share with. Only person not tripping. And I was on shitty adderall. But I guess in hindsight, maybe I ended up better off. Either way, as I constantly go over the days that led up to my onset I often look at the adderall and wonder.

Interesting - if I recall correctly we also have similar symptoms. My main one is ghosting, though now I have an additonal symptom: 'drunk vision,' (not DR!) which came after I combined Ritalin + alcohol 1 year after my initial onset of HPPD.

Woah, read my posts. I used to have a prescription for that shit before HPPD from DXM, and I'm pretty sure that contributed to the onset in some way. Also, I once took 20mg of Ritalin after HPPD and it made my symptoms worse for a while (I'm still not sure if I have returned to baseline yet). Oh, and acording to Dr. Abrams Ritalin has been known to cause HPPD by itself.

Well, dopamine plays a role in visual processing, and it's possible that some forms of HPPD could be caused by a modified/damaged dopaminergic system. I know that a lot of people with HPPD find that their symptoms are exacerbated greatly after taking stimulants such as Ritalin, which directly affect dopamine levels.

Before my onset of HPPD, I fucked around with a few drugs (had a prescription for Ritalin which I took everyday, took 10x Vicodins over the course of 2 weeks, 3x Salvia trips, 1 acid trip, and of course alcohol every other weekend). 1 DXM incident caused my HPPD. After that I was sober of all drugs for like, 3 months. I then took Ritalin once to study, which made my visuals (which were healing, I think) worse for a long time after. 8 months after that I touched 2x Vicodin, which muffled my hearing and gave me tinnitus (I still have both symptoms). 1 month after that I touched Ritalin + alcohol again, and now all my visuals are way, way worse, I had balance issues (those are mostly gone) and have slight circulation issues (healing, I think). I also have some cognitive issues which I never had before.

Anyway, my point is that drugs you used to do may affect you way, way differently now. So if you want to play it safe, just avoid all drugs. At most you'll get a few hours of pleasure, at worst you'll get permanently increased visuals (or worse).

After my initial onset, I was extremely anxious and fearful of my new vision. It felt like my entire reality had changed, and this is what gave me the most anxiety and fear. However, I eventually realized that my "new" reality was the same as it had always been, it was just my perception of it that had changed. Once I understood that it was the same as always and I was just percieving it differently, my anxiety began to subside. These days I have accepted the "new" reality as the one that had always existed, and I continue to live life as normal.

In my opinion, while long-term altered perception can definitely have vastly negative effects, it is ultimately up to the person experiencing this altered perception whether they are affected negatively or not. The altered perception isn't inherently negative [counter point: some people have HPPD that disrupts daily life, such as by making reading or driving very difficult] but can be made out to be by the person experiencing it.

Thanks for the response. However, I didn't abuse it though. Also, doesn't aspirin cause/potentiate hearing loss on its own? I am aware that it protects against anti-biotic induced hearing loss though.

Also:

"After a recent knee operation, I took only 11 doses of Hydrocodone (according to the prescription) and suffered significant hearing loss. Luckily, this hearing loss only lasted 3 weeks. By the time I could get an appointment with an audiologist I tested OK. The research I saw on the internet suggested that high doses over a long period of time could result in hearing loss (as in Rush Limbaugh's case) but my experience indicates that the hearing problems can be caused with much lower doses and terms. I certainly won't take this drug again."

http://injurytalk.com/forums/t37-Vicodin-Hearing-Loss.html

I hope this means I'll be just fine...

Ha, this is a really late reply but it's been about 6 months now.

You'll be fine man. Just give it some time and don't stress it. After all if you recovered from DMT then there is no reason you shouldn't fully recover from a bit of second hand pot smoke.

"...until the brain recovers years later."

Well for what it's worth you'll be back to normal eventually, probably within a few years

Those symptoms sounds an awfully lot like depression though, I would look there first rather than burnt out receptors.

I am no specialist but I understand things well enough to have a strong belief HPPD is not something that gets better with time. It does not make any sense. Whatever it causes to our brain, I cant see it repairing itself. The visual cortex just is not for that. It is not plastic at all. Why would it be? Vision processing is not supposed to be touched. Anectodes here only confirm that.

I'd have to disagree. There are many anecdotal reports of people vastly improving and sometimes 100% ridding themselves of symptoms, though for some reason you don't tend to find many of them on here. If you search other websites you will find them.

And other than getting starbursting a couple months ago from a night of heavy drinking. Not much has gotten worse. If it werent for the Starbursting Id say I was curedish.

Shit, did the starbursting stay even after the night of heavy drinking? I am starting to drink again a little so I'm curious.

The problem is I drug cocktailed. I dont know what gave me hppd and when I got it. Mxe and it set in immediately, 2cb a month before? who knows....this worries me as I dont know what if any drugs I took whilst I had hppd. And I also looking back had warning signs I ignored. Staticy bits on white walls. And I didnt know. I dont wanna end up like the lads tripping balls 24/7. Thats too much. I wanna know why I imprpved now im worse. I had very mild hppd...now I have moderate to bad hppd. I dont eat sugar, I eat little carbs I dont drink and I dont take any medicine of any kind. Im frightened il go blind. And yeah goodpoint mgrade. The anxiety is way waaay under control. The ocd has gone basically. Drdp isnt too bad. Its just these fucking visuals

Your anxiety is definitely not under control, and I believe that's what's causing your visuals to get worse.

Melatonin helps me sleep but makes my visuals worse the next day. I've only taken it about 3 or 4 times in the past few months. I took it once last night and just took another a few minutes ago (I plan to stop after today for a while, but tomorrow is an important day and I must get good sleep). I have never heard of anyone having long-lasting problems from taking a melatonin so Mandy, I would say you are fine taking it.