Hallucinogens After HPPD

[VisualDude]

Over the course of time, discussions have pondered whether neurons/synapses been damaged.

 

Generally, when this type of damage has occurred to neurons, the functions they perform are either less stable ('sudden' instead of 'smooth') or functions are weaker/blunted.  It is more difficult to know with HPPD because our symptoms are experienced as system problems, not just tiny little neuronal problems.  But one might expect that the 'effectiveness' of a hallucinogenic would change after HPPD.

 

Each scenario has its own characteristic.  Blunted functions will require more of a drug to achieve the same effect.  An example is Meth, which requires increasing doses because of strong neuronal down-regulation (counter-reaction to the drug).  Whereas, loss of stability would make a person more sensitive to doses of drugs, more hyper-reactive.

 

Theoretically then, LSD users would require higher doses after HPPD for 'blunted' function, or they would need a smaller dose (be more sensitive) for the same general effects.

 

So this poll is an attempt to grasp people experiences with recreational drugs after developing HPPD.

 

Please feel free to add comments as well as take the poll

[Missjess]

With my hppd...I wouldn't even consider taking a recreational drug it has the chances to trigger psychosis.

I am super sensitive to every chemical I put in my body that affects the brain. I've had horrific experiences from simple supplements like glycine and sarcosine, anti biotics triggered my hppd to get worse and I felt as tho I was falling into a sudden valley of doom. Lamictal made my hppd feel like I was on acid.

[BigPapaChakra]

I've stopped everything and have been entirely sober for well over a year, I don't know exactly how long. For the first months after HPPD, I continued to use cannabis, alcohol, and occasionally benzos. 

 

When I smoked, I would be catapulted into a full-blown panic attack with the sensation/experience some describe as "impending doom". Additionally, all my visual symptoms were greatly increased, including visual snow. Also, I'd get a mix between a traditional migraine and an occipital/visual migraine. For instance, I'd get flashes of light and these big blobs/orbs of color which some experience prior to getting a migraine, or experience solely if they have occipital migraines. Yet I'd get these visual symptoms along with the migraine. Yet, if I was drunk, I could smoke a small amount. If I was on a benzo, I could smoke as if I didn't have HPPD. Yet since my HPPD has gotten worse, if I had ever chosen to drink and take a benzo, I'd still never smoke as it carries too large of a risk.

 

The experience of being drunk has also been altered. Believe it or not, throughout my period of substance abuse, I never experienced a hang over, and only once felt the need to vomit (and that occasion included a lot of different things). Yet, if I were to take up drinking again, I could assure you that I'd end up getting hang overs and I'd probably vomit occasionally. At probably post-HPPD months 4-6, I went through a period where I drank a lot with my fiance (then my girlfriend, who also at the time was not sober). I could still handle my alcohol, but it took effort. I also started to become dizzy and experience vertigo after a certain amount, whereas before I NEVER experienced this no matter what amount of alcohol I ingested. 

 

For the first month or two after HPPD, I would take benzos at concerts to replace my use of substances such as LSD, MDMA, MDA, and Ketamine. These would actually be good experiences despite a relatively high dose (for one without a large tolerance). My visual snow, oddly enough, would decrease. I of course had no anxiety whatsoever, and I had a lack of dissociation. I'd also have great recollection of the prior night, despite the fact that when one abuses benzos they normally don't have much if any recollection of the prior day/night. As I said, I no longer abuse ANY substance whatsoever, but the fact that I have had such enjoyable, controllable, HPPD-free days/nights on benzos has always had allure to me, and that's not good with an addictive personality. Despite that, I've only taken a total of 1 etizolam out of the 20 I originally bought sometime around March, lol.

 

After studying Dr. Selye's research on stress, I definitely see all sources of stress as interconnected. All compounds have direct effects outside of the General Adaptation Syndrome that can cause "stress", thus I see substance abuse, even lightly recreational abuse, inherently stressful. Therefore, I'd also like to state that other forms of stress, such as sleep deprivation or arguments and so forth, also have a much greater impact on me. They increase every HPPD symptom in me, including visual symptoms. Also, when I first wake up any day outside of days that I have "perfect sleep" (as compared to my typical sleep), I'm extremely "tripped out". I'm very dissociated, much more groggy and fatigued upon waking, and have trouble separating my dreams from reality for the first some odd minutes of the day. I'm sure other people have experienced that after vivid or lucid dreams, but this is now a daily occurrence. Of course, I can discern my dreams from reality, but every night I have near lucid dreams and wake up thinking "Did that happen yesterday? Oh, nevermind, lol, that was just another crazy dream." Even meditation impacts me more, and sometimes it worries me due to the whole "kundalini syndrome" thing.

[Jay1]

I did acid a few times after I got hppd (I didn't have a clue what hppd was though, just knew i was fucked up).. I was heavily into mdma, at that point, usually taking it 4-5 times a week... Plus speed, coke etc... I real mess.

 

anyway, I do remember taking lsd a few times about a year later, it was pretty scary. Can't say for sure if it was just really strong acid, or the hppd put me into another level, but it was crazy and I had to down a litre of vodka to bring myself down a bit.

 

That last acid was my last real drug experience other than a bit of coke/optiates here and there. The brain can't take that sort of abuse.

[VisualDude]

Great details, thanks for posting right away.

 

I kind of figured that most stopped using hallucinogens after HPPD began, but figured that for many there was an overlap of time to realize that something was really going wrong.  So for a few weeks or perhaps months a person might experiment with various drugs.

 

In my case it actually took months to figure out what was causing the problem ... so I'd get exposed again to what was damaging without realizing it was causing the problem.

[Jay1]

or years!

 

I was taking drugs every day, so differentiating between an illness, a comedown or a high that was crazier than normal was just blurred lines at that point.

 

It is only now, with hindsight, that I can pinpoint when I think hppd started, for me.

[alice-acid]

Mdma is more effective for me definitely. I haven't taken a hallucinogen since my hppd started,and ket works the same but everything is a lot trippier

[alice-acid]

Oh and weed is also about the same but it makes me have crazy panic attacks

[brake]

Mdma is more effective for me definitely. I haven't taken a hallucinogen since my hppd started,and ket works the same but everything is a lot trippier

Does Mdma make your symptoms worse?

[hppd33]

Yes man i got hppd from mdma. Its like im living in a continues xtc trip. No thing is normal

[Jay1]

mdma sent me over the edge too.

 

I think I could have lived quite easily with the hppd i got from lsd, the mdma abuse turned it into into something much harder to handle though... from something that was strange, but manageable, to something that felt like a full blown mental illness. MDMA put me in a very dark place.

[hppd33]

Hey Jay.

How long do you have hppd now? Are there symptoms getting better for you?

[Jay1]

19 years, next month

 

The visuals are still as bad as day 1, maybe worse, as I stupidly did salvia a few years ago, which made my visuals crazy... The trippy feeling is a little bit better. The depression that haunted me for the 1st three years is gone, thank god, and I deal with the anxiety much better now, which also seemed to ease after the 3 year mark (maybe just the relief of not feeling so depressed helped).

 

So.. The symptoms are still strong as ever, but my ability to cope is better now.

[hppd33]

Okay im still wrestling with depression too. Do you take other meds besides klonopin? Tommorow iam starting wellbutrin for depression and to ease kpins side effects.

[Jay1]

no... just Klonopin now... But I have tried nearly everything.

 

Klono causes me pretty bad depression after about 3 days... Which is quite a good thing, as it stops me wanting to take it all the time.

 

Did you ever try Inositol? I found that a good treatment for depression.

 

Good luck with the welbutrin

[miketusa]

Does Mdma make your symptoms worse?

I took a very low dose of some subpar molly. Just felt extremely elated for the night. Next day I had the blues a bit. No worsening of symptoms, though. My HPPD seems to be somewhat resistive to worsening. That is, that my drug interactions have returned to what I consider normal. Not the extreme sensitivity that has become a hallmark of this disorder. Which has allowed me to continue smoking cannabis. Personally, I attribute this to my use of gabapentin. But I can not be sure. Perhaps time has played more of a roll than I previously thought. Hopefully, I can continue to tread lightly in this sort of twilight zone of hppd without much more damage to myself.

[hppd33]

I took a very low dose of some subpar molly. Just felt extremely elated for the night. Next day I had the blues a bit. No worsening of symptoms, though. My HPPD seems to be somewhat resistive to worsening. That is, that my drug interactions have returned to what I consider normal. Not the extreme sensitivity that has become a hallmark of this disorder. Which has allowed me to continue smoking cannabis. Personally, I attribute this to my use of gabapentin. But I can not be sure. Perhaps time has played more of a roll than I previously thought. Hopefully, I can continue to tread lightly in this sort of twilight zone of hppd without much more damage to myself.

How is your VS, mike?

[hppd24years]

Well it's been a long 24 years to say the least from my wonderful experience with Shroom Shronks laced with l.s.d. That was the first and last trip of psychedelic, sensational, surreal, sabbatical, self-sadistic, pseudo-sonic, self-suffering, StateofRegret, <<<(What happened to him)[hope he's ok sincerely] self sabotaging, shafting, shattering, shity, scary situation.. How's that for alliteration?? So no, never tried psychedelic drugs after the hppd nor really wanted to, thank personal logic for pin pointing the origin that this disease stemmed through. I did smoke some weed after and hash but I found it brought back my crazy out of this world trip or simulated it.. I did drink a lot though which is a drug too according to Health Canada.. I never felt or seen paranoia, panic, afterimages, visual snow, star bursting, hues, etc when I was drinking or drunk. Usually when I would awaken I felt clear headed and in tuned with normality. I did drink for years after hppd for it was my only escape.. Unfortunately I had to quit drinking because it was becoming increasingly detrimental to my health and life.. I even quit smoking cigarettes.. I hope I see a visual that will brake this state of regret I'm in.. One day I'll sail again not to see evil but Alice n wonderland to have lunch with mike zero, jay, BigPapaChakra, Missjess and all their friends.. Woosh wouldn't that be really far out?? Take good care of urself and others..

[etardnow]

about 20 days short of my 1 year anniversary (wouldve been may 23) of hppd and drug sobriety, i took some M.

 

worked the same and it was magical. I popped at the armin only 5hour concert

 

anyways after trying M and everything was fun, i decided to smoke weed again and also try snow for the first time.

 

for 3 weeks i went on a drug binge, 3 weekends of m, 3 weekends of drinking leading to coke, and every few days use of marijuana.

 

as for symptoms, i think tracers, starburst, and visual snow in pitch black worsened but it was so minute that it didnt deter me from use. 

 

i also read that some people became "fixed" while high (due to the dopamine/sero w.e) but for me the visuals were pretty much the same. 

 

one thing that it sorta fixed was that i cant initiate voluntary nystagmus as easily anymore. 

 

 

but i did the drugs because i basically accepted hppd, the mindset i was and am in right now was much more different then what i was even half a year ago. I tend to not come to the forum anymore because it basically claws at my mental barrier. i havent gotten better symptom wise but my mentality is so strong now that i am rarely if at all bothered by hppd. The only thing that i hate is im going bald and i know for sure its fucking hppd and not genes. With hppd, I got testosterone related symptoms which include but not limited to balding. I also still dream every single day which sucks because i feel like that my brain is not getting the real deep rest it needs. ever since lsd i have become a very light sleeper and if i wake up after a good amount of sleep 5hours? then thats the end of my sleep. before hppd i used to be able to sleep 10+ hours. 

 

cheers

[brake]

I took a very low dose of some subpar molly. Just felt extremely elated for the night. Next day I had the blues a bit. No worsening of symptoms, though. My HPPD seems to be somewhat resistive to worsening. That is, that my drug interactions have returned to what I consider normal. Not the extreme sensitivity that has become a hallmark of this disorder. Which has allowed me to continue smoking cannabis. Personally, I attribute this to my use of gabapentin. But I can not be sure. Perhaps time has played more of a roll than I previously thought. Hopefully, I can continue to tread lightly in this sort of twilight zone of hppd without much more damage to myself.

I did mdma once at a festival after about a month of HPPD (still didn`t know what was wrong with me) and I thought maybe I can untrip myself with it. It didn`t make my visuals worse. It alleviated some stress and anxiety while I was on it. I don`t think it made my HPPD worse at all however it probably added to my depression during the week. I would say that it had the same effects as when I would take it before HPPD except the DR made me more of an observer of the experience than before so in that way you can say it was a little less effective.

[hppd24years]

Mike Zero, u better watch out u might trip out and have a big T-Rex chasing u down henceforth the THRAWTH heated breath running down the back of ur spine.. Whaaahoooo!!!

[hppd24years]

Mike Zero, u better watch out u might trip out and have a big T-Rex chasing u down henceforth the THRAWTH heated breath running down the back of ur spine.. Whaaahoooo!!! It's coming for u!!

[hppd24years]

Mike Zero, u better watch out u might trip out and have a big T-Rex chasing u down henceforth the THRAWTH heated breath running down the back of ur spine.. Whaaahoooo!!! It's coming for u!!

[RLS]

Maybe I'm lucky because I've never had a bad trip other than the 2 times doctors had given me laughing gas to knock me out. It certainly had triggered my deep thinking and issues with DP/DR and by the time I turned 12 I had contemplated suicide perhaps months after the 2nd experience but no one knows about that besides you all and a mom of a friend who I talked to back then who was very religious. I figured I just had to learn to deal with life because I didn't want to cause pain to my parents or any other people if I can help it. It's quite amazing that I was never put on meds of any kind other than perhaps the occasional antibiotic and I didn't get into drugs until the summer after I graduated high school in 1998.

 

Other than the occasional floater I still didn't have any symptoms of HPPD back then even after tripping on LSD for the first time a couple months before my 19th birthday. My cannabis use stopped a few months later but only because I joined the Air Force. I only smoked cannabis one more time while still in training before being stationed in Korea where it is legal to drink at 20 years old. Cut to Jan 2001 a month after I was honorably discharged I was happy to get back to smoking cannabis. I feel more "normal" when I'm high then I ever do when sober unless of course I have some other reason to be happy. It was during the summer of that year I got to trip on acid at least over half a dozen more times, tweaked out a week at a time twice, rolled on ecstasy once or twice, and ate mushrooms once all with my old best friend. I ended up being more depressed by the end of each experience but I knew that was normal when crashing from any drug. Still though, other than for occasional floaters and visual snow along with what I believed to be normal afterimages from bright sources, my vision was otherwise clear and back to normal by the next morning. 

 

Between 2001 and 2011 I may have smoked a lot of cannabis but during that time I had only tired and failed to roll on ecstasy once, tweaked for a few days twice twice feeling sick as a dog each time, tried and failed with crack once, smoked salvia twice, smoked plenty of "primos", snorted my fair share of coke, and ate shrooms 2 or 3 more times being alone for one or two of those times. It's not until 2011 when I began to notice my HPPD symptoms and that didn't lead me here until just recently. In my case I didn't read about symptoms and then look for them but rather I've always had them and these topics reinforce what I've already experienced in my 34 years. I do seem to be an exception to the rule because I didn't feel as if I was suffering from anything other than a deep depression until I Googled why I might be seeing so many visuals with or without using cannabis. The visuals themselves seem to me to be more like having an advantage over normal people because what's wrong with determining trajectories faster?

 

It is odd to notice the trailing when stepping through doorways or opening cabinets and the many other strange phenomena but if I have only learned one thing from my trip experience from the first time they gave me laughing gas is that perception isn't 100% reality. I keep trying to come up with the perfect proportion and while 4/5 sounds great it's probably closer to 1/3 if you at least include string theory. In other words just because you may feel pain or see the waves of the water on the road it's just your brain telling you that there is damage being done to your body or the mirage caused by light bouncing off the road at a right angle and creating the distortion wave pattern classically known as a mirage. Once again, am I the only one who see these mirages all of the time? At least I know what they are and know that I don't need to bother to slow for them unless it happens to be raining that day. 

 

Even tough I'm aware I may have done damage to my brain I have a positive outlook on its effects and only time will tell if we somehow had caused early onset Alzheimer's or Parkinson's disease or something to that effect. Maybe it'll be the opposite with us and doctors find that we ended up becoming less likely to have a degenerative brain dysfunction but having to live with a perhaps slightly overactive brain. I'm always looking for the good within the bad and I feel like I have a slight advantage doing so with prior knowledge that seem to come to me in my dreams. I don't know maybe that's where I'm wrong and perhaps I have the worst case of DP/DR ever but I at least try to base everything I do and believe on what I do, what I read, or what I see instead of what others do and what they tell me to read or see. I'm pretty sure I may one day spend a long time in a hospital and I will be on many drugs but I'll at least always be aware and able to think whenever I'm awake.

 

It's supposed to be perfectly normal to see floaters and if paid attention in biology class you should have learned how the brain is not only able to filter out the little things like floaters but also flip the image. Babies view of the world is supposed to be upside down right after birth and even medical subjects who wore special glasses strapped to their heaps that flipped the view of the world would slowly regain an upright image over time. There's even a blind spot in everyone's eyes where the optic nerve connects and it's only noticeable most of the time during a trip to an eye doctor where they shine tiny dots at your eyes. I'm always curious what else could the brain be filtering out and if having HPPD gives me the chance to see the inner workings of our visual system even better I'm happy. I long for the day when we can wear special glasses and not only see in ultraviolet but perhaps any spectrum.

 

By the way until I go back to school I'll probably continue to smoke cannabis because at the very least it is the only medication I feel I need.