sounds like mushrooms might be able to cure hppd!

[brendan]

http://intellihub.com/2013/07/07/psilocybin-mushrooms-promote-growth-of-new-brain-cells-can-even-cure-ptsd-and-depression-exciting-new-studies-taking-place-despite-government/

[Syntheso]

I wouldn't be surprised if some psychs + some sort of therapy would be the only way to bend the mind back ;-)

[propat45]

I like the comment you posted on the article, Brendan.

[onedayillsailagain]

Hmm.. you know once I read something about shamans trying to cure people of schizophrenia with Ayahuasca. This just reminded me of that.

But I sincerely doubt munching down shrooms would be helpful.

I too at first thought: well.. maybe I just need to do a session with hallucinogens to get back to normal. Tried Iboga, that's a story for another day though. But in the end, it didn't help.

I get the "fight fire with fire" approach, but I just don't see how taking shrooms would be remotely close to a smart idea if you have HPPD, no offense.

[Syntheso]

Hmm.. you know once I read something about shamans trying to cure people of schizophrenia with Ayahuasca. This just reminded me of that.

But I sincerely doubt munching down shrooms would be helpful.

I too at first thought: well.. maybe I just need to do a session with hallucinogens to get back to normal. Tried Iboga, that's a story for another day though. But in the end, it didn't help.

I get the "fight fire with fire" approach, but I just don't see how taking shrooms would be remotely close to a smart idea if you have HPPD, no offense.

I was being a bit facetious. But I do wonder (can't see this happening any time soon) if by inducing a trip/something like it under medical supervision and some sort of designed therapy/treatment programme, you could possibly resolve and deal with the trauma (which I believe is the cause of the hyper-arosual of the sympathetic nervous system, as they think with PTSD), coming to terms with it by confronting it, and conjunctively stimulating your body with ways to aid that process, with medication and/or some sort of therapy. I do believe that engaging the fear response (FPS - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear_potentiated_startle) could be important too, as with treating PTSD etc which I have mentioned some of my thoughts to you on. I haven't quite tied all the knots up on this and will be trying to do so. But I think finding a cure (if possible) for HPPD will be very surprising. Perhaps as surprising as involving the substances that brought us into this. Maybe...!

[Ghormeh Sabzi]

Much more likely to make it 10x worse.

[onedayillsailagain]

I was being a bit facetious. But I do wonder (can't see this happening any time soon) if by inducing a trip/something like it under medical supervision and some sort of designed therapy/treatment programme, you could possibly resolve and deal with the trauma (which I believe is the cause of the hyper-arosual of the sympathetic nervous system, as they think with PTSD), coming to terms with it by confronting it, and conjunctively stimulating your body with ways to aid that process, with medication and/or some sort of therapy. I do believe that engaging the fear response (FPS - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear_potentiated_startle) could be important too, as with treating PTSD etc which I have mentioned some of my thoughts to you on. I haven't quite tied all the knots up on this and will be trying to do so. But I think finding a cure (if possible) for HPPD will be very surprising. Perhaps as surprising as involving the substances that brought us into this. Maybe...!

Hmm yes, but visually I don't see this method improving much. But mentally/emotionally/spiritually it might be of worth investigating indeed. I'm not trying to shun it. On the contrary actually, if one were to proceed properly and safely with such undertakings (unlike how I did with Iboga), it might prove to be very worthwhile.

Thanks for that FPS article, I'll have something to read tomorrow!

Finding the cure.. I've been dreaming about that since I befell upon this parallel universe! Treatment would suffice if sustainable, but an actual cure! Personally I'm leaning towards Coluracetam having that potential, for a number of reasons. Perhaps not a cure in the sense of never having to take it again, but a cure in the sense of completely eradicating all symptoms, instead of being merely palliative as most current treatments are. I'm very eager to give it a try. No one with HPPD has yet tried it. IIRC a person even used it concurrently with a psychedelic and reported far less visual distortions than usual. Well, if it has such a profound effect with acute psychedelic ingestion, one could only imagine what it might be able to do for the chronic yet milder nature of HPPD visual distortions.

Even if Levetiracetam would prove to work for me, I would gladly enjoy a few weeks of normalcy, to then quit again, only for the sake of giving Coluracetam a fair trial. Perhaps even more valuable would be the ability to compare improvements! Coluracetam being as novel as it is, and having a unique (!) MOA, might just prove to be a new (possibly better) treatment for HPPD.

Derailed to off-topic stuff there, haha. Bit too excited about Coluracetam. Back on-topic:

If one were to explore that path, indeed perhaps shrooms might be the best way to go. Honestly though, seems that there are little cases of, say, psilocybin or peyote induced HPPD. It would seem that the majority of HPPD cases involved man-made hallucinogens, rather than natural hallucinogens. Thus it would only seem wise that if one must try such approaches, naturally occurring psychedelics should be used preferentially. Perhaps I might add that while a second trip on XTC made my HPPD worse for a substantial period of time, doing Iboga did not. Perhaps for a day or three, but after that my visuals went back to baseline. I was just scared as shit though, to be blatantly honest, and was totally unprepared for a real hallucinogen. Bad timing and all that. Micro-dosing Iboga however, well that could be considered as useful. Which was my initial plan, but impatience lead me to make bad decisions. It left me with the feeling that, if only I had done Iboga instead of XTC, I probably wouldn't have ended up with HPPD, and I would've probably cherished the experience for life. Just a retrospective view on what might've been had I not been so reckless.

That said, finding a universal cure for HPPD would bring more joy to my life than a thousand sunsets could ever do. Yet again I emphasize that psychedelic treatment will most likely not benefit the visual aspects of HPPD, but it may be beneficial to the common co-morbid symptoms. Personally I've just accepted that drugs (hallucinogens in particular) will never again be able to be part of my life. And I'm okay with that, knowing that I will find another way to resolve this issue, most likely thanks to neuroscience, whether it takes me a year, a decade, or a lifetime. Preferably tomorrow though, haha! Besides, hallucinogens are not necessary for spiritual growth. Meditation might actually provide a better sense of accomplishment than simply ingesting a substance, but that's just my take on it.

Gee, where was I heading with this? It's a sign: time for bed.

Cheers.

[miketusa]

Had the opportunity to take shrooms this past weekend. Seriously, seriously considered it. Kinda went through the fight fire with fire thing in my head. I ended up smoking a bowl and deciding that was enough excitement for me. I was just tired of sitting in and not doing anything. Glad I made the better of two bad decisions though. Who knows what shrooms would have done to my HPPD. Marijuana doesn't seem to worsen it much. I have a few days of weird symptoms like head pressure. But other than that things usually go back to normal.

[Syntheso]

I'm too tired to fully respond, but I would just like to make it clear, I wasn't suggesting that dropping more psychedelics would somehow resolve HPPD. I agree, that would most definitely make things 10x worse if that was the sole method.
What I mean is - I am inclined to believe that inducing the kind of psychedelic/hallucinogenic states that brought us here, to activate responsible areas, would be a starting point in tackling what I believe is more of a core issue - beyond simply containing the sympathetic nervous system, which I would argue would only be palliative and not something that has a potential in resolving what is fundamentally going on (I believe the core issues involve the emotional centres i.e hippocampus + amygdala).
I speculate psychedelics (again, those things that brought us here) could be the only substances that could invoke certain areas fundamental to the pathogenesis of HPPD... and I suggest that invoking a therapy or form of medication simultaneously whilst inducing these states, could condition the mind not to result in a residual perceptive and cognitive trauma (I have done some reading which I mean to put together in a post in relation to HPPD + PTSD), but condition it to deal with it.
I know it sounds whacky, but I believe that the answer will be outside the box. Not saying that's necessarily the case, but I'm open to that as an option.
Anyway, I have been meaning to put this into a more fleshed review. I hope to do so very soon.

Addendum: so, not saying fight fire with fire; relight the fire and simultaneously distinguish it i.e. as above - condition the brain to fight the fire (well, learn how to deal with it).

[onedayillsailagain]

Syntheso:

Hehe I admire your out of the box thinking. Whilst I think I understand what you're trying to convey here, I'll refrain from responding extensively so as to give you a better chance to outline your theory. Wouldn't want to misinterpret it prematurely. But I believe what you are saying is that by introducing psychedelics, one might be able to put the brain/mind in the same malleable state as the one that induced HPPD, and then in that state the brain would be more receptive to medications/therapies/positive reconstruction? Perhaps a bit on the philosophical side, but it's definitely worth investigating. Hope to read your review soon

All the best.

[brendan]

i think syntheso's comment makes sense.

Here's some more on psilocybin and ptsd http://ptsdmindfulnesspsilocybin.blogspot.co.uk/

[Transform]

Im going to go ahead and dismiss this as a bad idea for a cure because Mushrooms were among the first psychedelic substance i ever used and had lasting shaman vision for 10 years.

 

The cure for Shaman vision doesnt include ingesting more mind-altering substances, it might seem perfectly fine at first yes, because you are on some goodies and an experience can make you have a normal positive outlook on whats going on for a great period. But afterwards then what? some people like me go back to that place we don't want to be.

 

Best bet is to not do any drugs for many years because how can our minds heal if we continue to put mind-altering substances into ourselves that have been scientificly proven to do powerful things to the psyche.

 

Blargh!

[brendan]

wtf is shaman vision?

[Syntheso]

wtf is shaman vision?

It's what some people call HPPD...those who still maintain that their mind has been opened and are seeing the world through a spiritually higher lens...instead of admitting it's a horrible ass neurological condition.

Although the above poster doesn't seem to suggest that's what they actually think..

[shaolinbomber]

I don't think ingesting more substances that are known to cause the condition is the answer at all and suggesting it on a wide open internet forum is dangerous advice. DOn't take offense to my post but im just stating my opinion.

[brendan]

When i posted it i did so ironically as it seemed ridiculous.  However, i think my brain is better at handling things now (with age and supps) and my guess is that i am less susceptible to hppd than when i was a teen (eg my response to cannabis now seems fine).  It may be reckless to test this theory, but the amount of psilocybin for ptsd (from rat models) is low - 0.1mg per kilo.  So for me about 6mg, ie about 600mg of dried mushrooms (i dont know what this means in terms of number, i'm guessing about 4  - what is the dry weight of an average sized semilanceata?).  After i got hppd, each subsequent dose didnt really add to the hppd, so perhaps if i try a v low dose it wont do much damage.  Or perhaps i'm a fuking moron for even entertaining the idea.

[miketusa]

When i posted it i did so ironically as it seemed ridiculous. However, i think my brain is better at handling things now (with age and supps) and my guess is that i am less susceptible to hppd than when i was a teen (eg my response to cannabis now seems fine). It may be reckless to test this theory, but the amount of psilocybin for ptsd (from rat models) is low - 0.1mg per kilo. So for me about 6mg, ie about 600mg of dried mushrooms (i dont know what this means in terms of number, i'm guessing about 4 - what is the dry weight of an average sized semilanceata?). After i got hppd, each subsequent dose didnt really add to the hppd, so perhaps if i try a v low dose it wont do much damage. Or perhaps i'm a fuking moron for even entertaining the idea.

Im kinda in the same boat. I still have symptoms of HPPD. But most other than visuals have dissipated due to a combination of time and supplements. However, I think it would be unwise to gamble at this point. Cannabis is certainly a gamble. Shrooms even more so. Drinking for me seems fine now. Before I would wake up DP'd the next day. Now not at all. Cannabis seems a bit strong even now. But if I take one or two hits I am able to enjoy it. Thought I try my best to abstain.

I have read somewhere, I believe it was bluelight of someone curing HPPD with shrooms, only to succumb to it again with further psychedelic experimentation. I wouldn't rule out Psychedelics as some form of a plausible cure. However, I think any risk far out weighs any chance of relief from symptoms. I think 9/10 it is gonna make it worse.

[onedayillsailagain]

^ Totally agreed.

Cannabis is a definite no-go for me though. Sometimes I dream I'm high as a kite though.

In any case, I'd say that if you consider psychedelics as a controversial cure, then keep it as a utmost last resort.

[Transform]

It's what some people call HPPD...those who still maintain that their mind has been opened and are seeing the world through a spiritually higher lens...instead of admitting it's a horrible ass neurological condition.

Although the above poster doesn't seem to suggest that's what they actually think..

I do not think it is that horrible at all when i look at it from a different perspective.

Shaman Vision 8)

I am happy to have HPPD today, today, Saw lots of after-images and many colors. My inner self tells me these are just spirits & demons looking to see if we are worthy depending on their activity in whole. I became scared of the demons but understood after awhile they are of our own making and i faced them with all my will one glorious night. I came to accept them and now i am not afraid of these spirits anymore and now they have become my friends and i walk with them everyday..

 

There are many ways of handling the disease, i try to make the best of it. But back to the OP i would say no, Psychedelic Mushrooms are not the cure.

For me they are a literal spiritual guide.

[Syntheso]

I don't think ingesting more substances that are known to cause the condition is the answer at all and suggesting it on a wide open internet forum is dangerous advice. DOn't take offense to my post but im just stating my opinion.

No one's advising it.. but there is absolutely no problem with discussing ideas. I doubt someone would read this thread and decide that as a treatment given the wealth of info on the forum.

 

I do not think it is that horrible at all when i look at it from a different perspective.

Shaman Vision 8)

I am happy to have HPPD today, today, Saw lots of after-images and many colors. My inner self tells me these are just spirits & demons looking to see if we are worthy depending on their activity in whole. I became scared of the demons but understood after awhile they are of our own making and i faced them with all my will one glorious night. I came to accept them and now i am not afraid of these spirits anymore and now they have become my friends and i walk with them everyday..

 

There are many ways of handling the disease, i try to make the best of it. But back to the OP i would say no, Psychedelic Mushrooms are not the cure.

For me they are a literal spiritual guide.

Fair enough man, if it helps you framing it in that perspective then that's great! I suppose I actually view it in a similar way.. when I am playing improvised music, often HPPD provides the ghosts that inspire my expression.

[brendan]

in a way im surprised this forum doesnt have more people with a spiritual influence/perspective.  I was quite spiritual as a teenager, not now tho.  Bit more grounded now.

[Syntheso]

in a way im surprised this forum doesnt have more people with a spiritual influence/perspective. I was quite spiritual as a teenager, not now tho. Bit more grounded now.

Perhaps because a fair amount of people here took psychedelics (and other drugs) as part of exploring their spirituality, and then acquiring HPPD...kind of ruined the whole spiritual vibes...

I remember my friends and I being of the whole 'opening the doors of perception' ideology when we were exploring stuff. Well, empirically, for me, it did open the doors of perception (in many positive ways) and actually made me a much better person. Unfortunately, it did some damage as well. I don't regret any of it though!

Anyway, what I am saying..? Some people possibly rejected mysticism for science (well putting it like that is perhaps a bit over the top) after acquiring HPPD. Mysticism still fascinates me and I enjoy exploring my spirituality in many ways, but it's not something I feel is of immediate interest to the forum. I suppose everyone here is primarily concerned about getting better - medically. I would love to talk about spirituality more on here, but often refrain for fear that people will thank I'm a cracked out hippy and not take my medical suggestions seriously!

[Syntheso]

And to be clear, not talking about all that pseudo-spiritual bull crap...like people walking around calling themselves Buddhists when they don't really have a clue. I just mean considering you and your relationship with the world, interacting with others etc. These considerations are important and something science cannot provide. So it is not just important to focus on medication but other ways of raising the human spirit. Having a good time with friends and family, talking walks, playing a great gig often has removed my worst symptoms for days. I sense that most people here really know that though.

[Syntheso]

Interesting that this just came up..
http://hppdonline.com/index.php?/topic/2114-mushrooms-and-a-cure-for-dpdr/
I am still keen on the idea of HPPD as a trauma needing to be dealt with. Exposure therapy is efficacious for PTSD patients. They have to confront their traumatic experiences before they can start recovering properly. 
I wonder if small doses of shrooms (not enough to induce visuals or freak out) might help recondition the mind not to freak out from the intensity of previous powerful trips.. sort of activating the areas mildly but not traumatising them... sort of like a kid being afraid of a monster under the bed, and you showing them, 'look, see, there's no monster under the bed, it was just a bad dream'...
I would also perhaps go back to a place where I had one of my more powerful trips and relive it and try to reframe it. And maybe supplement with something to contain the suppress the sympathetic nervous system.
Something I might put to the test after my Keppra trial, unless a new efficacious treatment is found.

Disclaimer for those that need it... I am not telling you to go and take mushrooms... I have formulated these ideas about things through my own research.. I have no evidence, and am heavily speculating.

[must-be-a-way-to-heal]

Isnt that what homeopathic healing methods are about.. giving a person minute doses of a substance to facilitate healing...?

 

In some ways healing can be a shift in perception ... tho it sitll does not chance the fact that my vision is impaired and prevents me from fully embracing certain aspects of life.

 

Shamans enter into state at will .. Definition of shamanism is "MASTERY" of EXTUSY and MASTERY OF SPIRITS they are masters of there state / the spectrum of consciousness ( Eros and Thanertos )... and have the ability to journey at will,,,  and MASTERY of SPIRITS ability to acess resources from Spirit.. usually in the service of comunity for healing purposes.

 

HPPD is very diffrent from true shamanic vision. For one the sufferer has no control over hppd.

 

I have worked and studied with real shamans " not charlotens" there are too many fake gurus in todays world